Author Topic: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?  (Read 4928 times)

Offline g33k

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2024, 04:10:23 PM »
It does in the sense that most of these plot points aren't really resolved, wrinkles and minor WTFs, but most do not move the main story along..

"Resolved" = over (as in "story-ending").
These are advancements in their respective sub-plots & character-arcs.

I think  Michael's & Charity's are the only arcs we have seen "resolved."  Jim has said that retirement from the KotC job "is Michael's happily ever after."

I fully expect other "not fully resolved" elements to be introduced (or foregrounded) -- some to be resolved, some not -- before we reach the BAT (which, hopefully, will resolve most of the ones still open).

Offline Mira

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2024, 03:05:23 PM »
"Resolved" = over (as in "story-ending").
These are advancements in their respective sub-plots & character-arcs.

I think  Michael's & Charity's are the only arcs we have seen "resolved."  Jim has said that retirement from the KotC job "is Michael's happily ever after."

I fully expect other "not fully resolved" elements to be introduced (or foregrounded) -- some to be resolved, some not -- before we reach the BAT (which, hopefully, will resolve most of the ones still open).

Lots of sub-plots and character arcs, but how much has the over all plot really advanced?  The important ones like who if any are on the other side that belong to the White Council? We've discovered a couple of cat's paws over the last dozen or so books, i.e. the Red Court and the Fomer or maybe they were the cat's paw of a cat who is the paw of a bigger cat, but as to just who they are is unknown..  We've known for sometime that Harry was star born, but have no clue as to what that means, especially for Harry.. We may finally find that out, or not...  We know that Mab is very important, and it is important that she have a sane competent Lady, we thought she had that once she killed her daughter off and got Molly... Well, no, when push comes to shove, she wants Molly killed... All these little sub plots are nice but mostly we don't know a lot more now than we did at the beginning of the series... When Harry became Winter Knight, yeah, lots of missions, cool, but have the politics of the Winter Court been explained yet? 

Offline g33k

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2024, 07:31:03 PM »
... when push comes to shove, she wants Molly killed ...
Not exactly, I think.
Mab thinks an unready/unable Winter Queen is a liability that the world cannot afford; and that Molly was unready (as of the opening of the Battle).  She judged Molly an acceptable Winter Lady, but an unacceptable Winter Queen.

But Molly keeps growing (and surprising Mab).

We don't know if Mab now thinks Molly might be ready (I doubt it; but we don't know).
 
Mab stands ready to see anybody dead (even herself) if the long-term result would advance the world's survival.

Mab is at war... Always.  And it's a desperate war.  Even when there is no war within, she is at war at the Outer Gates.  And so she is always in that mode of evaluating "what is acceptable collateral damage."
 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2024, 08:55:02 PM by g33k »

Offline Mira

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2024, 09:45:28 PM »
Quote
Mab stands ready to see anybody dead (even herself) if the long-term result would advance the world's survival.

And that's the nitty gritty of  what I am talking about.. Where is the plan, what is the plan?

Offline vincentric

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2024, 12:53:40 AM »
And that's the nitty gritty of  what I am talking about.. Where is the plan, what is the plan?

The plan is to win, to stop the Outsiders from breaching the Outer Gates and destroying our reality. To that end, Mab is forming whatever alliances she can, making webs of contingency plans, recruiting and training any potentially useful agents she finds and maintaining a diligent watch for any Outsider activity, whether direct or through agents.

Given the scope of what Mab has going and overriding need for security, she has to keep her plans secret until action time. And the world can still throw her curveballs like Ethniu. Jim can't possibly do anything to spell out all of Mab's plans in detail without doubling the page count with boring exposition. And she's not the narrator, so we'd be treated to chapter after chapter of Mab explaining things which is totally out of her character.

As far as Harry being WK, He got the job in Changes and took his side quest in GS. The four books since have been Harry doing WK jobs.

Mab doesn't think Molly is ready to be Queen, but is happy with her as the Lady.

Harry used the Placard and the Knife to good effect in BG. Maybe he'll use the Shroud next, perhaps to cure Thomas?

Since Changes, Thomas has fought his trauma from the Nagloshii, dealt with the grief of Harry's death by himself, become a potential father, been blackmailed by his possessed true love/child's mother into attempting to assassinate the leader of an Accorded Nation and imprisoned in supernatural Alcatraz. His life has been almost as eventful as Harry's.

We've got 8 or 9 books left, if we didn't have dangling plotlines to resolve, we be getting all new issues without the built-up investment to hold our interest. There's plenty of time.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 04:43:19 AM by vincentric »

Offline g33k

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2024, 02:13:17 PM »
And that's the nitty gritty of  what I am talking about.. Where is the plan, what is the plan?
The plan is to win, to stop the Outsiders from breaching the Outer Gates and destroying our reality...

Given the scope of what Mab has going and overriding need for security, she has to keep her plans secret until action time...

Just so.
If your idea of "progress" is to  see the overarching plotline laid entirely bare... I doubt you'll ever get what you want.

We already know that the Oblivion War is going on "behind the scenes" and isn't likely to be seen within the novels, or by Dresden.  I think we should all presume there are other elements, similarly-hidden, that we'll never see; not even via Jim's short stories.

(I presume, for example, that various signatories of the Accords have their respective agendas, and plans in motion... some likely stretching into the thousands of years duration; I expect the Denarians all, collectively, have one or more plans, as well as each of the Angels has their own plan(s), and various sub-groups and cliques within their number have plans they agree upon; we know the Raith grand-plan to pacify the world with peace & sex & sensuality, and presumably Malvora & Skavis are allied in planning to crush all mortals under a global reign of fear & despair; etc etc etc).
 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2024, 03:08:13 PM by g33k »

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2024, 03:10:18 PM »
  • As you said KSG, The Librum Bellum aka Men in Black aka the Librarians presence will be there, probably subtly. I suspect we may even meet one of their agents. A new, highly dangerous threat. Even Vadderung was wary of them. A lot of what Harry does in the book (hopefully helping people) will be noticed, but also some of the more destructive stuff. ... Was it one of their agents in Dog men?

That's a question that's bothered me for a while.  Because the Librarians are supposed to be highly secretive, and particularly cautious of Harry in part because he publicly advertises, and also because of his propensity for destruction.  I recall a WoJ that the main reason the Librarians never reached out to Karrin was that she was considered suspicious for being a known associate of the wizard.

The feds in the Dog Men comic weren't exactly enthusiastic to cooperate with Harry, but they weren't super shy of letting him know they were aware of the supernatural in general and specifically of him, either.  It's been a while since I read that one, but I don't think they came across as being as impressively prepared / capable as I'd have expected from the Librarians, either.

So are there two branches of clued feds?  The Librarians in the background being super cautious, and the more goonish branch doing more open field work?  Either independently, or directed from the shadows by the Librarians, as pawns that known just enough to do their missions, but not enough to compromise the Librarians if something happens to them?

I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get Tilly working for them, but probably not trusted at too high a level, as making their Chicago presence someone who more or less already trusted Harry would make it a bit too easy for him.

Offline CrusherJen

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2024, 09:10:58 PM »
I'd definitely like to see Tilly come back at some point, and I think having him involved with the Librarians would be fitting. (Advancing two plot threads with one character is cool!  ;D )
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Offline g33k

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2024, 09:34:05 PM »
I'd definitely like to see Tilly come back at some point, and I think having him involved with the Librarians would be fitting. (Advancing two plot threads with one character is cool!  ;D

I am very much expecting this in Twelve Months.

Last we saw Tilly, he had just stopped scoffing at all things supernatural when Susan casually ripped a steel desk apart.
<Exeunt TILLY, RUDY, and NONCOMBATANTS, stage Left>
A "lateral career move" (from the FBI into the Library of Congress Special Collections Division) seems entirely apt, after that.  Whichever alphabet soup is currently on his badge, he's Federal-level Law Enforcement, and I am absolutely certain the Feds are sniffing around the disaster that was the Battle of Chicago.

Also:  Tilly had a VERY high opinion of Murphy... and Harry was there to see Murphy die.  I'm sure Tilly's got his own grief... and his own hard questions to ask Harry Dresden.

It'd frankly be shocking if Tilly didn't show up!
 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2024, 09:37:16 PM by g33k »

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2024, 04:18:13 AM »
I like the idea of Agent Tilly returning.  I think that is more likely than what I’m about to suggest. 

I believe Twelve Months might be a good time for Elaine to reappear.  We haven’t seen her since White Night.  I don’t think she has even been mentioned except perhaps in an offhand remark or two regarding how the parapet came into being.

I’m not into the Elaine = Kumori idea, but she does appear to be hiding some secrets.  We really have no idea what her agenda is aside from staying away from the White Council.  Now that Harry has been kicked out of the White Council I could see Elaine showing up and saying, “I told you so, Harry.  You can’t trust the Council.”  Not that that would be the reason Elaine pays a visit to Chicago.  She is a private investigator, so she could have a case that takes her to Chicago.  From a story telling standpoint, this might finally be the time for Jim to reveal or partially reveal what role Elaine is actually playing.
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Offline GreenMysticalUnicorn

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2024, 06:34:48 AM »
You mention Butters knows a way to cure someone from Nemesis, what did I miss because I can’t recall this being the case.

Offline GreenMysticalUnicorn

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2024, 06:56:25 AM »
I don’t know if I agree with Harry being winter knight and a let down. Remember ghost story, the over waxing theme there is CHOICE. Harry always has the ability to CHOOSE.

Harry doesn’t indulge too much in the nature of the mantle. It would be out of character for him to do otherwise tbh.

And Mab finally has a competent knight. She is using him to help her scheme. I think she likes that Harry hasn’t indulged too much into the mantle, otherwise he’d end up like slate. And she isn’t ready for him to be there yet.

I actually really like how the winter knight has been portrayed.

I do agree the long waits aren’t helping. When I do my rereads the alter books hold up a lot better as they tie things in, which you kiss after years of waiting

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2024, 10:18:01 AM »
You mention Butters knows a way to cure someone from Nemesis, what did I miss because I can’t recall this being the case.

Butters sword can't harm mortals, but it sure can harm supernatural beings or evil ones.  I'm pretty sure Nemesis would qualify. 
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Offline GreenMysticalUnicorn

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2024, 01:03:43 PM »
Ah yes interesting and clever by Jim.

Would it hard the person that it carrying Nemeisis or will they be fine, with Nem being taken out? I wonder

Offline Mira

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Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2024, 10:20:41 PM »
Butters sword can't harm mortals, but it sure can harm supernatural beings or evil ones.  I'm pretty sure Nemesis would qualify.

  I think the sword can harm mortals, if the mortal is a host for a coin and won't repent and attacks Butters.  The sword won't harm innocent mortals is what you should have said I believe.