Lara and Harry

[Lord Kinbote]

Do we know whether Lara is able to feed off of Harry?  She surely could BEFORE he became the Winter Knight, but can Harry's mantle counter the efforts of Lara's demon?  I don't recall in any book or short story any feeding interaction between WK Harry and a White Court vampire. 

How fun would the dynamic be if Lara can't feed or otherwise influence Harry due to the WK mantle?  Answer:  Great fun, more fun than we (and Harry and Jim) should be allowed to have.

[Mira]

Do we know whether Lara is able to feed off of Harry?  She surely could BEFORE he became the Winter Knight, but can Harry's mantle counter the efforts of Lara's demon?  I don't recall in any book or short story any feeding interaction between WK Harry and a White Court vampire. 

How fun would the dynamic be if Lara can't feed or otherwise influence Harry due to the WK mantle?  Answer:  Great fun, more fun than we (and Harry and Jim) should be allowed to have.

 Not sure about his Winter Knight status giving her the burn and preventing her feeding on Harry. However Harry might still be protected.  Once before in White Night, he blistered her lips because of his true love for Susan even though it had been five years I believe since he had been with Susan or any other woman.  I think because of his true love for Murphy, Lara will still not be able to feed on him unless in the mean time he has casual sex with another. His brief affair with Luccio canceled the protection he had had from Susan.  Also it was the possible reason behind the scene in Ghost Story when Justine was having a lesbian affair which canceled the true love bond/protection which then allowed her to have sex with Thomas.  I pass no judgememt on this arrangement nor am I speculating on why it was chosen over a heterosexual arrangement to make her love making with Thomas possible..  Yes, I understand the touchy topic ice is very thin here, and don't care to venture further.

[g33k]

Do we know whether Lara is able to feed off of Harry?  She surely could BEFORE he became the Winter Knight...

We don't know if Harry's relationship with Murphy would have protected him, or if it hadn't gotten deep enough / serious enough.

I like to think it would have -- I ship Murphy with Harry, tho I think Molly was a better fit for the long term, just because they both have centuries of lifespan (unlike vanilla-mortal Murphy (but who knows what Einerjar-Murphy (or whatever) will have)).

But I'm very dubious that Harry *ever* got that protection via Murphy...  I need to go back to Peace Talks, and re-read the scene where Harry spars with Lara in her home dojo:  IIRC, that wound up with some unarmed/grappling, and that would get skin-contact, and I don't recall Lara getting burned?

Do we know whether Lara is able to feed off of Harry?  ... can Harry's mantle counter the efforts of Lara's demon?

I am pretty sure there is WoJ specifically saying that the WK mantle's sexual urges & the Whamp-whammy sex thing are additive with each other.  No immunity for the WK.

I expect Lara would die (tho it'd be a close thing):  she seems a bit smitten with Harry (in her own predatory way) and I don't think she could resist trying the classic whampire "pacify with pleasure" schtick.

In self-defense, Harry would do the WK-Mantle "sex with violence" thing, fueling both his own magic and the WK-mantle with Whampire sex-mojo.

Lara would do well to remember who kept their self control, there in the Raith Deeps and the brief "cannonball run" over the estate.  We know Harry can fuel his magic with whampire sex-mojo, and he's only been honing his will colder and harder since then.
 

[LaraBeck]

We don't know if Harry's relationship with Murphy would have protected him, or if it hadn't gotten deep enough / serious enough.

Actually we do know Harry is protected by the True Love™ that he shared with Murphy.

Lara gets burned by Harry in Peace Talks, not in the scene you mentioned, the one at the dojo, though it should be said that in that scene there's no mention of them making skin to skin contact (so while he already had sexual relationships with Murph at that point, the protection isn't tested yet), but in the scene where Lara and Harry are getting ready to rescue Thomas in the castle, they do touch and she burns. Harry makes explicit mention of it, check out Chapter 25 of Peace Talks.

And at the end of Battle Ground, when Lara and Harry shake hands over their deal, the only reason they can is because Lara is wearing gloves.

[g33k]

... in the scene where Lara and Harry are getting ready to rescue Thomas in the castle, they do touch and she burns. Harry makes explicit mention of it, check out Chapter 25 of Peace Talks.

Thank you, I'll check that out ...
 

as soon as I figure out where my walkabout copy of PT has gotten to...   

[LaraBeck]

Thank you, I'll check that out ...
 

as soon as I figure out where my walkabout copy of PT has gotten to...   

No worries, I got you:

...Lara was standing next to me, her bare shoulder against my elbow. My elbow approved, ecstatically—but Lara jumped and let out a little truncated sound of discomfort.
She glanced down at her shoulder, where a patch the shape, I guess, of the end of my elbow was turning red, as though she’d brushed it against a hot pan.
Vampires of the White Court had a severe allergy to sincere love, the way the Black Court doesn’t like sunbathing. Skin-to-skin contact with people who love and who are loved in return is hardest of all on the White Court.
Which meant that …
Oh.
Well. I hadn’t been thinking about having that aura of protection around me when Karrin and I got busy, but it was nice to have it.
And it was nice to know it was real. Very nice.
“Ouch,” Lara said, her tone annoyed. Then she glanced up at me and her expression became suddenly pleased. “Oh. You and the policewoman? Congratulations, wizard.”
Chapter 25 - Peace Talks

[g33k]

No worries, I got you:

TYVM!

Of course, I still need to track down my PT.
This state of affairs is simply unacceptable!

[Mira]

Actually we do know Harry is protected by the True Love™ that he shared with Murphy.

Lara gets burned by Harry in Peace Talks, not in the scene you mentioned, the one at the dojo, though it should be said that in that scene there's no mention of them making skin to skin contact (so while he already had sexual relationships with Murph at that point, the protection isn't tested yet), but in the scene where Lara and Harry are getting ready to rescue Thomas in the castle, they do touch and she burns. Harry makes explicit mention of it, check out Chapter 25 of Peace Talks.

And at the end of Battle Ground, when Lara and Harry shake hands over their deal, the only reason they can is because Lara is wearing gloves.

And his feelings for Murphy haven changed, even though she is dead.  He is still grieving and hasn't moved on, and until he hooks up with another woman, he will be protected... Or rather any real marital consummation between him and Lara is impossible.  Mab knows this, so what is she really up to?

[LaraBeck]

And his feelings for Murphy haven changed, even though she is dead.  He is still grieving and hasn't moved on, and until he hooks up with another woman, he will be protected... Or rather any real marital consummation between him and Lara is impossible.  Mab knows this, so what is she really up to?

Yeah, and until the next book comes out and we see the rest of the story, all we do know is that even by Xmas time (which is several months after BG) Harry still grieves Murph.

My theory about the whole wedding situation is that is, like all of Mab's plans, a multi-purpose thing. I think in part it is about making powerful allies, in part is about isolating Harry or changing his focus, maybe about him making other types of allies, in part is about Molly and making her lose all hope of romance bewteen her and Harry, and it might also be about Mab needing something from the Raith's library that by Harry being close he could get for her, or even for himself, there's probably stuff that belonged to Margaret in there. But I really doubt is because there's a need for an "heir" or something as simple as that.

[Regenbogen]

And at the end of Battle Ground, when Lara and Harry shake hands over their deal, the only reason they can is because Lara is wearing gloves.

So we don't know for sure if Lara still gets burned by his touch. It could be that the protection is gone because Karrin died. And she did die. Valhalla is the afterlife.

[LaraBeck]

So we don't know for sure if Lara still gets burned by his touch. It could be that the protection is gone because Karrin died. And she did die. Valhalla is the afterlife.

That is true, the protection has not been tested after Karrin's death yet. I imagine that is going to be one of the first things that we learn about in Twelve Months.

However, there might some reason to believe that her being dead doesn't really matter. It didn't matter what Susan was doing after she and Harry got separated, it didn't matter what Thomas was doing either for Justine to keep the protection, it only ever mattered what Harry and Justine did themselves to get the protection removed from themselves (sleeping with Luccio and other women, respectively).

I don't think it's 100% clear how the protection works really. I mean, in one book Thomas says Lara has a burn mark from a wedding ring, in Peace Talks it seems like it was only a mild burn what she got from Harry, but also true love is about supposed to be super rare, but Harry gets it twice in his short life (imo, it was ridiculous that he got it from Susan, but ymmv), then you have to add up some of the stuff that's been said in Something Borrowed about true love as well. It's all a bit inconsistent imo. Personally, I wonder how much of all of that is about conscious decisions. But anyway, ymmv about the philosophical concepts of what is love and all of that. I imagine that the next book will bring some clarification over this part of the lore.

One thing that JB has said though, that so far seems consistent through the books, is that the true love protection thing only happens between consenting adults, who mutually love each other and have shared the physicality of it, it doesn't take hold if you don't act on it.

IMO, it seems like a "mark" that is placed on you, that would stay until it gets removed by an act of rejection of it, ie sleeping with another person (because apparently not even time erases it, if we believe White Night).

But yeah, we don't know how death of one of the people involved affects it, my guess though, would be that it doesn't. Harry is still alive, he was already "marked" by true love, he would stay that way until he "rejects it" by being sexual with someone else.

[Mira]

But yeah, we don't know how death of one of the people involved affects it, my guess though, would be that it doesn't. Harry is still alive, he was already "marked" by true love, he would stay that way until he "rejects it" by being sexual with someone else.

I think at the very least that it is complicated.  Harry's love for Susan was apparently true love, he was protected from Lara in White Night.  His affair with Luccio canceled that protection, and apparently what he felt for Luccio wasn't true love.. Why?  Because she was under a spell and really didn't return it?  So then is unrequited love not true love?  Some say it was casual what Harry had with Luccio, yet he was hurt when he found out what supposedly she felt for him wasn't real. Can you experience true love more than once in your life?  We have evidence that Harry's feelings for Susan was true love... What Harry felt for Murphy sure appeared to be true love.. If it was, just because she died Harry can't turn off the feelings he had or has for her like a facet. 

[g33k]

... My theory about the whole wedding situation is that is, like all of Mab's plans, a multi-purpose thing. I think in part it is about making powerful allies, in part is about isolating Harry or changing his focus, maybe about him making other types of allies, in part is about Molly and making her lose all hope of romance bewteen her and Harry, and it might also be about Mab needing something from the Raith's library that by Harry being close he could get for her, or even for himself, there's probably stuff that belonged to Margaret in there. But I really doubt is because there's a need for an "heir" or something as simple as that.

All of that, yes.
I think access to Papa Raith's library is on Mab's agenda (likely, as you suggest, to power-up Harry).
Further isolating Harry from his Mortal allies (Mab sees mortal ties as a weakness, after all).

The biggest one, I suspect, is that Mab wants to find the Whampire Nemfection-vector:  Papa-Raith had Outsider-fueled protections, and an Outsider-fueled curse (that the porn-starlet coven used), and Justine got Nemfected apparently from working closely with Lara.  Something seems to be rotten at the core of the White Court.

And -- oh look! -- Mab has a Starborn WK (just the thing for stomping on Outsiders!); time to toss a HarryDresdenGrenade into that bunker.

[LostInTime]

Per Something Borrowed (I think that's the title. I don't have a reference handy) The marriage ceremony removes true love's protection. Once the wedding goes down, Harry has no protection from Lara.

Other than Mab's warning to Lara to not feed on her knight.

[g33k]

Per Something Borrowed (I think that's the title. I don't have a reference handy) The marriage ceremony removes true love's protection. Once the wedding goes down, Harry has no protection from Lara ...

IIRC, that's specifically a Faerie/contractual thing (a marriage being (from the Fae POV) a very contractual affair (oaths &c:  "to have and to hold, forsaking all others, from this day forward, 'til death do us part...")).  I'd need to go back and read the story to be sure whether Harry was actually that specific in the exposition.

I doubt the Whampire Hunger is affected by the ceremony either way; I certainly wouldn't expect a loveless political marriage to convey any protections, so I don't see why a political marriage would end them.