Has Carlos sided with the merlin against Harry

[Mira]

I suspect the prior Merlin (the one before Langtry) may have had such an outlook; or maybe Younger Langtry did -- when he first became Merlin -- but the one we see now is older and "wiser" and much more cautious...

Or so set in his ways that he can no longer adjust to the modern world.

[Tinfoil hat]

I think that's probably kind of inherent to the nature of the Council.  It's made up of people who live for centuries, and the most influential, powerful, and potent of them are centuries old.  An ingrained conservatism would be expected.

The more so, of course, because nine times out of then, they would be right.  It's probably normal for the Council that the youngish Wizards and Witches, say anyone in their first lifetime-span (by which I mean someone from membership to 70 or 80) would likely get excited about this or that Super-Duper-Unprecedented Major Big Deal all the time.  The mature and older Wizards and Witches, though, have seen it all before...and before...and before.  They don't get all that excited about things, and like I said, 9 times out of 10 they'll be right.

(Sort of like the interaction of parents and teenagers, on a grander scale.)

We know that this is the tenth time, that what's going on really is a Big Fat Deal, but it would naturally take time for the older Councilors to recognize that.

OTOH, as JB has said, when the Council takes the gloves off and starts punching for real, people feel it.  They're a major power when they feel motivated, as Kemmler learned and as we've occasionally been seeing.

I think as fans we misunderstand the purpose of the WC. Its to prevent the use of black magic. Fighting to protect humanity is Secondary. Think of the UN. Its main function that is mostly overlooked these days is to prevent direct war between the Superpowers, major, and regional powers. Preventing war in general is a secondary purpose. As long as there isn’t a global conflict its succeeding.

The point about the older wizards hearing Harry’s ideas and rolling their eyes because they think when his older his veiws will change makes sense. How many things did 14 yr old u promise he would never do that 30 yr old u is doing.
How many things did single u promise not to do when u got married that u are doing now. Harry’s idea might seem new and novel to him but to the others they are like cute kid.

[Mira]

I think as fans we misunderstand the purpose of the WC. Its to prevent the use of black magic. Fighting to protect humanity is Secondary. Think of the UN. Its main function that is mostly overlooked these days is to prevent direct war between the Superpowers, major, and regional powers. Preventing war in general is a secondary purpose. As long as there isn’t a global conflict its succeeding.

The point about the older wizards hearing Harry’s ideas and rolling their eyes because they think when his older his veiws will change makes sense. How many things did 14 yr old u promise he would never do that 30 yr old u is doing.
How many things did single u promise not to do when u got married that u are doing now. Harry’s idea might seem new and novel to him but to the others they are like cute kid.

There is truth in that, as in paraphrasing Mark Twain, " I thought my father was a dumb ass when I was 20, but was surprised how intelligent he seemed when I turned 21."  I know that isn't exactly correct but you get the idea.. However some ideas do get out dated, and there is wisdom in realizing that.

[LordDresden2]

I think as fans we misunderstand the purpose of the WC. Its to prevent the use of black magic. Fighting to protect humanity is Secondary. Think of the UN. Its main function that is mostly overlooked these days is to prevent direct war between the Superpowers, major, and regional powers. Preventing war in general is a secondary purpose. As long as there isn’t a global conflict its succeeding.

The point about the older wizards hearing Harry’s ideas and rolling their eyes because they think when his older his veiws will change makes sense. How many things did 14 yr old u promise he would never do that 30 yr old u is doing.
How many things did single u promise not to do when u got married that u are doing now. Harry’s idea might seem new and novel to him but to the others they are like cute kid.

And even with Harry, they're right a lot of the time, as we've been seeing.

Over time, Harry reluctantly came to the realization that the Council's hard-line attitude about warlocks is probably a necessity.  Another time (I think it was in Changes), he finds himself musing about the necessity of keeping some magical knowledge secret, and then thinks with a start that he's 'turning into his teachers'.

[LordDresden2]

I think as fans we misunderstand the purpose of the WC. Its to prevent the use of black magic. Fighting to protect humanity is Secondary.

Stacy said as much to Harry in their conversation in Turn Coat.  It's not so much that protecting humanity is secondary, as that by restraining black magic, and evil wizards, that's the biggest single way they can usually protect humanity.  The megathreats and monsters they take down are an issue, but they come along much more rarely than warlocks, and often when they do turn up it's a warlock that precipitates the threat.

[Mira]

And even with Harry, they're right a lot of the time, as we've been seeing.

Over time, Harry reluctantly came to the realization that the Council's hard-line attitude about warlocks is probably a necessity.  Another time (I think it was in Changes), he finds himself musing about the necessity of keeping some magical knowledge secret, and then thinks with a start that he's 'turning into his teachers'.

Zero tolerance is easy and it works, but throwing out the baby with the bath water is never a good solution.  I think that's what Harry was trying to say.

[g33k]

Zero tolerance is easy and it works, but throwing out the baby with the bath water is never a good solution.  I think that's what Harry was trying to say.

I think you're right on all points.

But the WC is just too short-handed now -- after the losses of the Ramp-War -- and doesn't have the resources to catch those babies.  Before that, I think they were too blind, not seeing the issue in the proper perspective.

Would the modern WC -- with the lessons learned -- use the luxury of time & resources (they had in prior decades) to "catch those babies", if they had such luxuries today?  No telling, I think.

Will Harry leverage the Paranet&c into an alt-White-Council, intercepting proto-warlocks with the much-more-numerous mortal membership?  I honestly hope so, I think it's got a lot of fun potential; it'd be (or become) a spin-off series, I think); but again:  no way to tell, until/unless Jim writes it (or WoJ addresses it, yea or nay).

[Mira]

Would the modern WC -- with the lessons learned -- use the luxury of time & resources (they had in prior decades) to "catch those babies", if they had such luxuries today?  No telling, I think.

 I think the Merlin was right for the most part, they are shorter handed than they were and the consequences of a warlock slipping through is disastrous.  However having said that, I think Harry was also right, the fact that they don't even bother with trials for the most part anymore and many of them are kangaroo courts, says the WC could take more trouble and risk to catch a lot of those babies, but it is easier just to toss the bathwater without checking the baby.

[Dina]

I think the Merlin was right for the most part, they are shorter handed than they were and the consequences of a warlock slipping through is disastrous.  However having said that, I think Harry was also right, the fact that they don't even bother with trials for the most part anymore and many of them are kangaroo courts, says the WC could take more trouble and risk to catch a lot of those babies, but it is easier just to toss the bathwater without checking the baby.

*raises hand* Sorry to interrupt but, it's a "kangaroo court" an idiom? I had never heard of it. I imagine for context that it is a mock court, something for appearances, but I am intrigued.

On topic, so I was not frowned upon, I agree with Mira about the WC. I also think that so far the books have been underusing the paranet, but perhpas this is going to change, with more hackers around and Bob being able to access the internet. I mean, with Harry, our narrator, not being able to use computers, it was difficult to see what was going on with the paranet. But just as the muggle, ehrm, vanilla mortals are more and more dependent of internet, the paranet is probably exploding (mostly away of Harry's awareness until now).

[Mira]

raises hand* Sorry to interrupt but, it's a "kangaroo court" an idiom? I had never heard of it. I imagine for context that it is a mock court, something for appearances, but I am intrigued.

  Essentially a kangaroo court is a mock court, a set up with the verdict predetermined by those doing the trying.

[Dina]

Ah, that is what i thought. Thank you!

[g33k]

  Essentially a kangaroo court is a mock court, a set up with the verdict predetermined by those doing the trying.

Yeah, what she said.
Predetermined result, going through the motions for show (PR, spin-control, etc).
 
(I note that "mock" court/trial also has another meaning:  a "practice" trial or other not-real event; but without any legal weight, either:  a "kangaroo court" usually carries the implication of there being genuine consequences following the "conviction."  So calling it a "mock" trial doesn't necessarily distinguish between the innocuous "only for practice" trial and the malign "only for show, but with real consequences" trial).

[Dina]

Thank you both. It is a funny idiom.

[g33k]

Thank you both. It is a funny idiom.

Idioms often are!

"Raining cats and dogs."
"Pulling my leg."
"Going cold turkey."
etc.

[Dina]

Indeed!
You have not idea how confusing it is for me with some of those. By the way. We have an idiom very similar in meaning to "pulling my leg" but it would translate as "pulling the hair". It is a little more complicated, because if you actually pull someone by grabbing their hair, that would be "tirar del pelo", but the idiom for when someone is pranking you is "tomar el pelo", which is...softer. Like taking someone hair in your hand but not actually pulling it. But anyways, it is about hair and not legs.