Infected by Nemesis. What do know about how and when. What we don't know.

[g33k]

  Yeah, but again, we need more information.. So Nemesis is limited to infecting 13, a more important question is can each of those thirteen pass the infection on to thirteen others and so on?

How many Nemvectors can there be?
Must a Nemvector be one of Nemesis' instances (whether that number is 13, or 7, or 713, or whatever)?

[Mira]

How many Nemvectors can there be?
Must a Nemvector be one of Nemesis' instances (whether that number is 13, or 7, or 713, or whatever)?

 I'm thinking in terms of how infectious disease spreads.  If one Nemfected being can spread it to 13 other beings, and each of them are able to spread it to thirteen others, you can see where this is heading pretty fast.  However so far there is no little or no evidence of how quickly it spreads, beyond what we are told.  We know or assume that Lea got infected through direct contact with the knife, and Mab as well, because she also had direct contact, we don't know however how Maeve or Cat Sith got it.. It is possible that before she realized it was the knife that was the vector that Mab gave the knife to her daughter.  That might be another really good reason why she was so pissed with herself, "it was the knife."  None of that explains Cat Sith though, did he have contact with Lea, Mab, or Maeve? Would he have had any contact with the knife? Or did his infestation come from somewhere else?

[vincentric]

Nemesis has to be limited to a small number of hosts or it would have won already. This is an entity that has been around since the beginning of human history. If it spread like a virus and just doubled every year, it could have infected the entire population of earth by now.

[Mira]

Nemesis has to be limited to a small number of hosts or it would have won already. This is an entity that has been around since the beginning of human history. If it spread like a virus and just doubled every year, it could have infected the entire population of earth by now.

I agree for the most part, yet one reason why it hasn't spread is the Winter Court and the Gate Keeper have been so good at keeping it out. 

[g33k]

I think the WoJ is that it has an absolute cap on how many simultaneous Nemfected beings there can be at any given time.

Some speculate the cap is 13.

Some have wondered if there's a total power-level it can control, so maybe 13 mortals, but fewer total if it's enforcing its will on beings like the Leanansidhe, Aurora, Cat Sith, etc.

I'm also wondering if inanimate Nemvectors (like the Athame) count against that cap.

[Mira]

I think the WoJ is that it has an absolute cap on how many simultaneous Nemfected beings there can be at any given time.

Some speculate the cap is 13.

Some have wondered if there's a total power-level it can control, so maybe 13 mortals, but fewer total if it's enforcing its will on beings like the Leanansidhe, Aurora, Cat Sith, etc.

I'm also wondering if inanimate Nemvectors (like the Athame) count against that cap.

Or subject to change?  As in Jim may not have that worked out yet himself.  Or it sounds like what we are calling infection really isn't in the classic sense of the word.  It is hard to say on the Athame, because in the Winter Court we know on page of two who had physical contact with it, Lea and Mab.  Since Mab seemed to be blaming it as a source for Maeve's infection, it implies that she had contact with it also.. However there is no evidence on page that either Maeve or Cat Sith had physical contact with the Athame.

[g33k]

Or subject to change? ...

Jim himself seems to have specifically not specified the exact number.
I strongly suspect that's because he hasn't decided:  As an author, he wants to reserve that detail to serve the needs of future stories...

[Mira]

Jim himself seems to have specifically not specified the exact number.
I strongly suspect that's because he hasn't decided:  As an author, he wants to reserve that detail to serve the needs of future stories...

Indeed!

[g33k]

... Or it sounds like what we are calling infection really isn't in the classic sense of the word ...

I very much doubt that Nemesis works identically to any mundane biological infectious disease!
It's merely a good simile in some specific narrow-focus cases.

... Since Mab seemed to be blaming it as a source for Maeve's infection, it implies that she had contact with it also ...

I don't think that's implied, at all.  "It was the knife" is simply a statement of how Nemfection entered the Winter Court.

Whether Lea then used the Athame to nemfect Maeve, or whether Lea herself was the Nemvector that got Maeve (or whether Lea nemfected some unrevealed additional agent (unseen onstage) who in turn got to Maeve) isn't -- AFAIK -- addressed by Mab's statement.

Another possibilty:  what if it was Mab herself who, in forcing Nemesis out of Lea (there at the Winter Well), allowed it (unbeknownst to Mab) to enter Maeve?  Extra pain and rage for Mab!

But I think Cat Sith is yet another instance, unrelated to the Lea/Maeve nemfection.

[The_Sibelis]

I don't think that's implied, at all.  "It was the knife" is simply a statement of how Nemfection entered the Winter Court.

another aspect of the knife and Leah not to be forgotten, is she thought she could use it to take on "that which stalks us all" hindsight 20/20 obviously Nemesis itself. So she knew it was a vector to Nemesis, and thought between its power and the connection she could take Nemesis through it I think. It backfired, she didn't expect the knife to open her up in return as much as it did.
An I'd guess it's such a good vector(though itself not Nfected in the direct sense), because as her atheme, it has not only worked black magic but worked Morganna's magic, and tasted her blood during ritual too.

[Mira]

another aspect of the knife and Leah not to be forgotten, is she thought she could use it to take on "that which stalks us all" hindsight 20/20 obviously Nemesis itself. So she knew it was a vector to Nemesis, and thought between its power and the connection she could take Nemesis through it I think. It backfired, she didn't expect the knife to open her up in return as much as it did.
An I'd guess it's such a good vector(though itself not Nfected in the direct sense), because as her atheme, it has not only worked black magic but worked Morganna's magic, and tasted her blood during ritual too.

I really doubt that, in my opinion Lea wanted more power and thought it would aid her in her power struggle with Mab.  Lea lost and gave way and gave up the knife to Mab, neither realized until it became apparent that it was infected that it was.

I don't think that's implied, at all.  "It was the knife" is simply a statement of how Nemfection entered the Winter Court.

So? Yes, it is implied, since we know the knife was infested, until Maeve turned up with it the only two who were infested also had contact with the knife.. So until we get further information, which we do not have, it is a hypothesis. Yes, Nemesis entered the Winter Court through the knife, but how did the infestation jump from it to Lea, Mab, Maeve, and Cat Sith? Was it actual physical contact with the knife that got Lea and Mab infested? Or once in the Court, Nemesis jumped off the knife like a flea off a dog's back to infest everyone who was vulnerable to it's whispers?

[g33k]

another aspect of the knife and Leah not to be forgotten, is she thought she could use it to take on "that which stalks us all" hindsight 20/20 obviously Nemesis  itself...

It isn't, to me, obvious that    "that which stalks us all" = Nemesis.
It's one reasonably-likely hypothesis, but not uniquely-likely.

Maybe the "us all" isn't "everyone" but "faeries" and what's "stalking" them all is the ever-tightening strictures of doing what they must do, being who they must be:  beings like Winter-Queen Mab, Winter-Lady Maeve, and the Leanansidhe... they have almost no freedom or free will, because they are so intensely who and what they are...
What even is the Leanansidhe's name?  Does anyone know, or remember, or care anymore?

[g33k]

I really doubt that, in my opinion Lea wanted more power and thought it would aid her in her power struggle with Mab.

That too; but The_Sibelis is correct:  Lea stated outright (when she was bound by Faerie Law & unble to lie) that she sought to oppose "that which stalks us all."  It doesn't have to be an either/or exclusive choice.  She wanted a powerup vs. Mab, too (unless we can uncover some construction whereby Mab herself (or Winter, generally) is "that which stalks us all").

[Mira]

That too; but The_Sibelis is correct:  Lea stated outright (when she was bound by Faerie Law & unble to lie) that she sought to oppose "that which stalks us all."  It doesn't have to be an either/or exclusive choice.  She wanted a powerup vs. Mab, too (unless we can uncover some construction whereby Mab herself (or Winter, generally) is "that which stalks us all").

  If I remember correctly, and though I remember her saying that, I believe she said that after
Mab had confronted her about the knife and took it from her.  Lea was humbled and we later have that scene where Mab had the knife in her belt.  So apparently neither Mab nor Lea suspected the knife was infested, because if Mab suspected why would she put it in her belt?   

[The_Sibelis]

really doubt that, in my opinion Lea wanted more power and thought it would aid her in her power struggle with Mab.  Lea lost and gave way and gave up the knife to Mab, neither realized until it became apparent that it was infected that it was.

is pretty much directly contradicted by the book.

isn't, to me, obvious that    "that which stalks us all" = Nemesis.
It's one reasonably-likely hypothesis, but not uniquely-likely.

Maybe the "us all" isn't "everyone" but "faeries" and what's "stalking" them all is the ever-tightening strictures of doing what they must do, being who they must be:  beings like Winter-Queen Mab, Winter-Lady Maeve, and the Leanansidhe... they have almost no freedom or free will, because they are so intensely who and what they are...
What even is the Leanansidhe's name?  Does anyone know, or remember, or care anymore?

well it should be. It's immediately obvious to me you have it backwards tho. The Adversary is specifically called such by the fae(and indeed when talking about others "opposites" they have specifically referenced "their adversary" in the heaven n hell balance instead of An Adversary) just as the courts are tasked with protecting reality their adversary is tasked with breaking it, all of it. It is The End that nobody is safe from.