So What Happened to the Athame?

[Mira]

I don't think it went onward from Mab.
Maybe she has a Vault, like Hades; or some Island, like Harry.

Maybe she's still carrying it, under a glamour... or just fastened on a leg-sheath where it passes un-noticed.

Maybe she's wrestling, even now, with Nemesis.

That last one would be a stunner wouldn't!  Imagine in the final battle Mab turning on Molly and Harry, or finally winning her final battle and sacrificing herself kind of like Lash in a spectacular way.

[g33k]

That last one would be a stunner wouldn't!

Honestly, I more-or-less expect this.

I think Mab wanted Harry, in part, because she thought -- when (not if!) worse came to worst -- that Harry has a better chance to take her out than any Winter Knight for the past thousand years.

Right now, she opposes the Outsiders.  She is already laying plans against herself, for the time when she no longer opposes them.

I can't remember the book, something where Mab is doing something she said she'd do.  Mab said something like "the stars will fall from the sky, ere Mab keep not her word."  Which, to be honest, sounds an awful lot like a prophecy to me: there will be a rain of shooting stars, and Mab will break her sworn word... just exactly as if she were Nemfected...  And she was warning Harry, years in advance.

[Mira]

I can't remember the book, something where Mab is doing something she said she'd do.  Mab said something like "the stars will fall from the sky, ere Mab keep not her word."  Which, to be honest, sounds an awful lot like a prophecy to me: there will be a rain of shooting stars, and Mab will break her sworn word... just exactly as if she were Nemfected...  And she was warning Harry, years in advance.

Which sort of fits with the "stars and stones" oath that Harry is always saying.  In Peace Talks Eb warns Harry about using that oath so much because he doesn't really understand, not yet anyway the meaning of what he is saying.  However when Harry asks him what it means, Eb is evasive and wouldn't answer.

Nemesis is sly, and star born or not, Harry didn't pick up on Justine's infection until it was almost too late and the penetration of Demonreach would have been successful.  Of course Harry had had a lot on his plate at that moment along with injury and exhaustion.  It is beginning to look to my way of thinking that the Fomor were just another cat's paw of Nemesis. The infestation of Justine was just the tip of the spear to involve Thomas because Harry's reaction was predictable.. The reaction of the White Council, Winter Court etc were also predictable, and that the whole invasion of Chicago was merely a diversion to penetrate Demonreach with the tip of the spear, HWWB, who was infesting Justine. Once inside Demonreach's defenses, HWWB could have caused havoc, even a massive jail break.

So yeah, it could very well be that Mab is infested, but the plans of Nemesis are so subtle, so long range that no one has spotted it as of yet.. And like you say, the Athame is going to play a huge role in that.

[g33k]

Which sort of fits with the "stars and stones" oath that Harry is always saying ...

Just so!

... It is beginning to look to my way of thinking that the Fomor were just another cat's paw of Nemesis ...

I think that's a given.  Remember, the Outsiders launched a massive attack, precisely coordinated with Ethniu & the Fomor.

... So yeah, it could very well be that Mab is infested, but the plans of Nemesis are so subtle, so long range that no one has spotted it as of yet ...

Like I said previously:  I think that -- if Mab has indeed been Nemfected -- she is still resisting; she is still Mab, and not an agent of Nemesis.

[Mira]

Like I said previously:  I think that -- if Mab has indeed been Nemfected -- she is still resisting; she is still Mab, and not an agent of Nemesis.

  So it would seem, but how long was Justine infected? The plans for her were not achieved in a day.
  If Mab is infested, it is deep seated and so hidden she herself may not be aware of it.  Like I said, she put herself through the cure like she put Lea through.  Was it just prophylactic because she had been exposed to the Knife? Or did she feel symptoms coming on? Even Mab might think she had dodged a bullet as far as infection goes, and after treatment carry on as Mab.. I think not fighting it, simply because she doesn't think she is infected any longer because of the cure.  You can bet she tested Lea before she was released, but who tested her? We don't know how great an emotional blow the loss of Maeve was to her, what if something happened to Sarissa as well?

[g33k]

... If Mab is infested, it is deep seated and so hidden she herself may not be aware of it.

It's possible.

I think she knows, though.  I think she expects to lose... eventually.  If she thought she had a good replacement to hand, she'd engineer her own death.

But who would become Queen?

Molly, she thinks, is too weak; before Molly, the (Nemfected) Maeve would have been a disaster!

Lea is still too vulnerable to Nemesis... another disaster waiting in the wings, with Lea is the next-most likely person to inherit a Wintermantle when one of them needs a new host.

What if there's other Nemfected?  Another likely Winter-y candidate, secretly Nemfected and waiting for a Mantle...?

So Mab dare not pass her Mantle on to another... even though she knows her Nemfection will (eventually) overcojme her.  She needs to hold on, until a better option becomes available.

It's a very Ice-Queen solution, a very control-freak perspective.
It's very, very desperate.
 
 

[Mira]

I think she knows, though.  I think she expects to lose... eventually.  If she thought she had a good replacement to hand, she'd engineer her own death.

If this is true, what better evidence that Nemesis is lurking in her head somewhere.

Molly, she thinks, is too weak; before Molly, the (Nemfected) Maeve would have been a disaster!

But Molly isn't weak, she may still be a little too human for Fae taste, but Battle Ground proved she wasn't weak.. Again who'd plant that idea in Mab's head to the point where she wanted her Knight to kill her if she died so she wouldn't replace her.  Who'd that serve? You guessed it, Nemesis.

Lea is still too vulnerable to Nemesis... another disaster waiting in the wings, with Lea is the next-most likely person to inherit a Wintermantle when one of them needs a new host.

My point exactly.

So Mab dare not pass her Mantle on to another... even though she knows her Nemfection will (eventually) overcojme her.  She needs to hold on, until a better option becomes available.

Or this is what Nemesis wants her to believe, think how dangerous a really paranoid Mab would be, to the world, not the Outside.

[Snark Knight]

Demonreach can release different parts of a thing, whilst it may deleterious to remove a Lady’s Mantle to the Lady, it could disinfect the Athame like an autoclave. There is a very good reason Mab hasn’t asked for this.
She would have to ask a favour of Harry as Warden as the Winter Knight could not. Pride.

Perhaps she doesn't want to owe Harry.  Perhaps it would be more dangerous to separate the athame from Nemesis, though.

Ejecting the knife of power from the prison and keeping Nemesis confined might allow it a shot at Alfred.

It also might not, but even uncertainty on the issue is an excellent reason not to try.

[Mira]

Perhaps she doesn't want to owe Harry.  Perhaps it would be more dangerous to separate the athame from Nemesis, though.

Ejecting the knife of power from the prison and keeping Nemesis confined might allow it a shot at Alfred.

It also might not, but even uncertainty on the issue is an excellent reason not to try.

At this point anyway there is more we don't know about Nemesis than we do know.  Heck until Harry forced an answer out of Titania, interesting scene that since she would like him dead, it was simply known as the adversary.  Even Mother Summer hesitated to call it by any other name and said it was safer to do so.  So that being the case, and the lengths Nemesis has already gone to to try and infiltrate the island, best it would seem that the Athame stay where it is.. Or not, if it couldn't be kept secure in Demonreach prison, could Mab really hope to keep it any safer?

[g33k]

At this point anyway there is more we don't know about Nemesis than we do know...

Very true!

I wonder who does know more?

Titania likely knows more than she said.  Mab, I'm sure; and Odin.  Maeve looped-in Lily, but only to deceive her, and we don't know what Molly and/or Sarissa know.  Several (if not all) of the Fallen, and Uriel of course.  [ Maybe Harry could get another Shadow, spend a few years converting it to an ally, and learn that way... YeahNo, I know:  not gonna happen, and also a Terrible Idea ]

Ferrovax certainly knows something.  Also Drakul (who may be an Outsider, trapped in a mortal's body).

Who might, in particular, be able to tell Harry more?  The fae likely cannot:  it's "valuable info" and Harry cannot afford to purchase it.  Lea might be an exception, if she's still acting as his Faerie Godmother (when does that expire, if ever?)

Ebenezer?  Perhaps... but perhaps not.  He's aware of Outsiders, broadly-speaking (likely knows more than about them than Harry, e.g. recognized "Cornerhounds" & their strengths/weaknesses, educated Harry); but Eb seems focused on the "Black Council" and I don't think we've seen him ever show signs of knowing about Nemesis...?

Odin has been willing to give info to Harry "for free."  But only in a few specific cases, and we don't know if this qualifies.

Does Kincaid know?  Or Goodman Grey?  Other supernatural merc's? (because, by definition, merc's are in the biz of selling their expertise).

I wonder if the Warden could compel the info from Ethniu, or from any other prisoners in the Well?

Harry had a binder of supernatural sources... summoned a Loa who seemed to have an inside track even on Angelic-level sources!

Any other way(s) for him to learn about Nemesis (and/or more about the Starborn thing)?

[vincentric]

Go to the man on the spot, Rashiid. If anyone knows Outsiders, it's him.

[g33k]

Go to the man on the spot, Rashiid. If anyone knows Outsiders, it's him.

Excellent point (and an embarrassing oversight from my list)!

But again, I've got to wonder just how much Rashid would be willing to inform Harry...?
He has repeatedly shown that he likes to Keep Secrets^(tm) (he does it at least as much as any other wizard does)!

[Mira]

Excellent point (and an embarrassing oversight from my list)!

But again, I've got to wonder just how much Rashid would be willing to inform Harry...?
He has repeatedly shown that he likes to Keep Secrets^(tm) (he does it at least as much as any other wizard does)!

True, but he has also leveled with Harry a bit more that any other wizard has, except maybe Listens to Wind... However he is constantly testing him as well, Rashid seems to have his own agenda as far as Harry goes.