Author Topic: So What Happened to the Athame?  (Read 6267 times)

Offline Mira

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So What Happened to the Athame?
« on: October 06, 2023, 11:30:22 AM »

   We know that Lea got it at the now infamous party. We know that Mab had it for a short time anyway, there is a line about Harry seeing her wearing it in her belt.  We know that it fell into Maeve's hands where it did a lot of damage, to her.  We now know that the Athame was infested or contaminated with Nemesis.. Mab didn't even realize it until it was apparently too late for her daughter to be saved. "It was the Knife..."  Interesting scene there in the chapel in the hospital in Small Favor.  Mab was really pissed, I think more at herself than Harry because she had screwed up and her daughter would eventually pay the price.  Which brings us to my question; What happened to the Athame after all of that? Is it locked away? Destroyed? Decontaminated to be used on another day? Can it even be decontaminated?  I don't remember anything said about that in the books, however I don't know if there is a WOJ out there about it, does anyone know?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2023, 12:10:26 PM »
Something that damaging needs to be stored in Demonreach.

Offline Con

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2023, 12:44:24 PM »
Something that damaging needs to be stored in Demonreach.

Hmph not to play The Devils (Merlin's) Advocate but Harry has enough WMD's locked up in Demonreach. Any more would just be suspicious.

Offline Mira

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2023, 03:32:52 PM »
Hmph not to play The Devils (Merlin's) Advocate but Harry has enough WMD's locked up in Demonreach. Any more would just be suspicious.

 Not only that, but unless it was certified free and clear of Nemesis, other than in a max security cell, you wouldn't want it near Demonreach. I wouldn't trust it in as cell either if it comes to that.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2023, 04:41:35 PM »
Demonreach can release different parts of a thing, whilst it may deleterious to remove a Lady’s Mantle to the Lady, it could disinfect the Athame like an autoclave. There is a very good reason Mab hasn’t asked for this.

She would have to ask a favour of Harry as Warden as the Winter Knight could not. Pride.

Offline vincentric

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2023, 05:35:26 PM »
Since it is Mab's current purpose in existence to defend against the Outside, I'd think she was completely capable of neutralizing a Nemesis vector once she has it in her control. There's no reason to think that she hasn't destroyed/purified that knife and ended its threat.

Offline g33k

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2023, 05:37:07 PM »
... We know that it fell into Maeve's hands ...

Do we, though?
Know that Maeve actually ever got her hands on the Athame?

That was the vector that got Lea; that was how it got into the Winter Court, overall.

But I've thought it an open question whether Maeve got Nemfected directly from the Athame, or by "catching it" like a disease, directly from Lea (possibly via some very elaborate ritual, "inflicting" it on her; possibly from just "hanging out" together).  But also, Nemesis-prodded Lea could simply have laid some other Nemptation into Maeve's path (who has always seemed impulsive & tempestuous; even if some of it is "just an act," she sometimes does the thing just to maintain the facade).

Offline Mira

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2023, 10:08:08 PM »
Do we, though?
Know that Maeve actually ever got her hands on the Athame?

That was the vector that got Lea; that was how it got into the Winter Court, overall.

But I've thought it an open question whether Maeve got Nemfected directly from the Athame, or by "catching it" like a disease, directly from Lea (possibly via some very elaborate ritual, "inflicting" it on her; possibly from just "hanging out" together).  But also, Nemesis-prodded Lea could simply have laid some other Nemptation into Maeve's path (who has always seemed impulsive & tempestuous; even if some of it is "just an act," she sometimes does the thing just to maintain the facade).

My impression was that Maeve did have the Knife at one point, from what Mab tells Harry in Cold Days, though it is possible that though the Knife brought Nemesis to the Court, she picked it up some other way.. Anyway, here is the passage from Cold Days page 503 Harry asks her about being so pissed a few years back in the chapel, i.e. Small Favor


Quote
"A few years back, you got angry.  So angry that when you spoke it made people bleed from the ears. That was why.  Because you figured out that the adversary had taken Maeve. And it hurt.  To know that the adversary had gotten to her."
"It was the Knife," Mab said.
"Knife?"
"Morgana's athame," Mab said in a neutral tone--but her eyes were far away.
"The one given her by the Red Court at Bianca's masquerade.  That's how Leanansidhe was tainted--and your godmother spread it to Maeve before I could set it right."

It is vague and could go either way, Lea may have let Maeve handle the Knife for a bit before Mab heard about it and took it away from both of them.  Remember the line where Harry says he sees the Knife in Mab's belt.  Or Nemesis is contagious to those who are emotionally vulnerable, which Maeve really was, she had many issues.. Either way, it doesn't answer the question of where the Knife is now.  Mab said, "before she could set it right?" Meaning what? Destroy the Knife? Heal Lea, but too late to heal Maeve? 

Offline g33k

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2023, 11:03:25 PM »
...
Quote
... That's how Leanansidhe was tainted--and your godmother spread it to Maeve ...
...

That looks to me very much like an explicit statement that the Nemfection proceeded Athame --> Lea --> Maeve.

You could interpret it as Lea using the Athame to Nemfect Maeve...  But that isn't the simple & straightforward reading, it's a more contrived reading.

On the other hand, the fae do love their tricksy language, implying something without overtly stating it as a fact.
But I think Mab would have needed an objective, here -- why would she want to mislead Harry about this?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2023, 12:43:41 AM by g33k »

Offline Mira

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2023, 03:44:22 AM »
Quote
That looks to me very much like an explicit statement that the Nemfection proceeded Athame --> Lea --> Maeve.

  But it doesn't say how, does it?

Quote
That's how Leanansidhe was tainted--and your godmother spread it to Maeve

It implies that Nemesis is catching like the measles, but we know it isn't that simple.

When Harry says to Mab that it must have hurt her to see her daughter infested with Nemesis..
She answers;

Quote
"It was the Knife."

The Knife was the original source of the infection, implying like bad potato salad at a party, those who ate it got food poisoning.  Lea may have brought the salad to the party, ate some and offered Maeve a spoon of it, so both got sick, but again not that simple.
Quote
On the other hand, the fae do love their tricksy language, implying something without overtly stating it as a fact.
But I think Mab would have needed an objective, here -- why would she want to mislead Harry about this?

I don't think she was, or rather she may have not wanted him to know that she herself was in danger of infection, lets not forget she wore it for at least one scene in her belt.  I believe she, herself was taking the cure in Proven Guilty... Which makes sense since both she and Lea had direct contact with the infected Knife. However if Maeve didn't have direct contact with the Knife and still got infected, something else is going on. Also at some point Cat Sith was also infected, how did that happen?  Which could very well be the case as you say, then Mab missed it because she assumed that direct contact was needed.. That's why her anger in the chapel back in Small Favor, she was fooled and her daughter paid the price.  Or she wants Harry to get to the bottom of it, but because it is Nemesis won't come out and say it, that would be very Mab-like..

Back to the original question, so what happened to this tainted object?



« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 10:46:03 AM by Mira »

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2023, 01:56:13 PM »
The Fae don’t share so no nothing was offered to Maeve by Lea.

Remember though that Nameless was fully part of Winter at this time, and I posit him to be Cowl. Mab was always distrustful of Nameless and she undoubtedly warned Lea and Maeve, which is why the Athame had to go via a circuitous route to Lea.

Maeve on the other hand upon getting the warning would have immediately sought out Nameless and attached him to her Court, most likely leading to the Redcap also joining. In GP Maeve in her first meeting with Harry mentions that “he” had told her Harry was completely intractable, when challenged about who “he” was Maeve dismissed the matter. I think “he” was Nameless/Cowl.

There may therefore have been more than one infection vector, Cowl/Nameless couldn’t get to Lea but the Athame could, whereas he could work directly with Maeve, freeing her from the restrictions she was subject to.

Offline g33k

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2023, 05:01:17 PM »
The Fae don’t share so no nothing was offered to Maeve by Lea ...

Except that Nemfection allows for rule-breaking, so maybe Lea could share.

Also -- entirely within the rules -- Lea could have made a bargain with Maeve, offering Maeve some power in return for something else.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2023, 05:10:44 PM »
Maeve would accept an unsolicited gift. Fae don’t share. Nor would she enter into a bargain with an liegewoman of Mab, as Mab showed Harry Mab can take over such an obligation.

Offline g33k

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2023, 11:34:23 PM »
... Nor would she enter into a bargain with an liegewoman of Mab, as Mab showed Harry Mab can take over such an obligation.

A bargain completed & fulfilled, would leave no obligation.
Harry hadn't fulfilled; he had an obligation.

Offline g33k

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Re: So What Happened to the Athame?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2023, 11:16:36 PM »
I don't think it went onward from Mab.
Maybe she has a Vault, like Hades; or some Island, like Harry.

Maybe she's still carrying it, under a glamour... or just fastened on a leg-sheath where it passes un-noticed.

Maybe she's wrestling, even now, with Nemesis.