WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.

[The_Sibelis]

I laughed cause it literally seems like a joke position to me. Everything I said is true and is set up in her character specifically so. When other people argue with something that seems obvious to me? It's funny. She doesn't need to "abandon" anyone to do what she does to begin with, that's the straw man of your opinion I'm expected to fight here... I could farther explain she knows her family is secure and takes care of itself physically and spiritually. She's simply not worried about them and they don't process into her decision making in her own life specifically, and that's a proven pattern 🤷‍♂️
...also I don't agree it's fan service, I think it's was as in Stone as much as and in parallel to a specific sword, but that's just me..
We literally go from

Nice loophole, but... Murphy ain't gonna be willing to leave her own people behind.

to

Murphy wouldn't be so selfish as to abandon those people to that darkness and danger

for me to reply

She abandons "her people" every time she chooses to risk her life, when she chooses to be a cop in spite of her families desire...

And then as SOON as I ASSAIL the straw man of murphy needing to abandon her people to do what she does, not my position, your theoretical problem with my position... you try to lambaste me for it here

No; going out into the world to "fight the good fight" is NOT abandoning her people.  We have to do things contrary to the desires of our loved ones on a daily basis

from my perspective, you literally just tried to play me for a chance to act uppity about it. The ORIGINAL game everyone wanted to play with me that turned me into such a deep seeded azzhole quite frankly 🤷‍♂️
Your right, Murphy doesn't have to abandon her people, but since your really the only one who thinks from that perspective, you only prove yourself wrong. Murphy is a REBEL from her family, intentionally, purposefully. From the motorcycle an leathers to the Defining career choice, and the recycling of her ex husband she 'failed' with unto her sister.. it's literally built into her character.
I would prefer not to go down paths of logic for people to feel like they one upped me on a non sequitur straw man they erected for me to assail 👀 as the abandonment is NOT my perspective and nor does it have anything to do with it. Just like with the character herself, her family is non sequitur to her decision making unless it's motivation al la SPITE.

[Mira]

OTOH, I think he got more fan-hate for killing Murphy than for anything else he wrote.  So "bringing her back" as fanservice might be a choice he makes, to avoid a "salt in the wounds" effect on his fandom.

I think that is a bit of a toss up, those really offended can simply quit the series.  Honestly it depends on how he handles Harry once he gets past his grief.  If the writing is good, I think fans can get past it.  I know what you are thinking, I haven't been a Murphy fan for quite some time and am relieved that she is gone.  I think Jim painted himself into a bit of a corner with the character and had no where to go with her, so she had to go.  It could be that Jim just has a bit of a hard time writing female characters over several books.  Maybe that's why he has treated Molly the way he has, she remains strong, while her and Harry do have love for one another, there is no romance. 

[g33k]

I think that is a bit of a toss up, those really offended can simply quit the series...

In the end, Jim's a commercial author -- it's how he makes his living.  He doesn't want to make too many of his fans too unhappy, or his book-sales will begin falling (and so will opportunities like movies or TV-series, and other ancillary income).  I don't think he's seeing that yet.

But then again... he's had zero DF novels released since he killed off Murphy, so I don't know that he knows, yet.

... Maybe that's why he has treated Molly the way he has, she remains strong, while her and Harry do have love for one another, there is no romance.

It's pretty clear that Molly is still harboring feelings for Harry; and Harry still admits (at least to himself) some sexual attraction (he may not be vocalizing it; but to Molly-the-Sensitive, he can't deny it).

So while there may not be any active "romantic relationship," there's still a background tension there (much as there was between him and Murphy, for many books).

[Mira]

So while there may not be any active "romantic relationship," there's still a background tension there (much as there was between him and Murphy, for many books).

But that's the point, once the sexual tension is consummated it changes the relationship. It also changed Murphy, what made her interesting as a character for me was she was a strong female, was devoted to being a good policeman and the law, but was open minded about Harry's world and what he faced.  This gave her her own conflict to deal with, the sexual tension between her and Harry only added to the mix.  Actually I think it would have been better if Jim had stuck with Murphy's original reasons for not wanting a sexual relationship with Harry.  They were very good reasons, once they were abandoned, while he tried to make her more kick ass than ever, I found her a lot less interesting and a lot less believable.

[g33k]

...  Actually I think it would have been better if Jim has stuck with Murphy's original reasons for not wanting a sexual relationship with Harry.  They were very good reasons, once they were abandoned, while he tried to make her more kick ass than ever, I found her a lot less interesting and a lot less believable.

Murphy had to die (or maybe "die").
She was just a mortal, and Harry was moving further and further up the supernatural food-chain.  She could do amazing stuff against Valkyries, Whampires, etc... But put against something like a Naagloshii, she'd be d-e-d dead.

[Mira]

Murphy had to die (or maybe "die").
She was just a mortal, and Harry was moving further and further up the supernatural food-chain.  She could do amazing stuff against Valkyries, Whampires, etc... But put against something like a Naagloshii, she'd be d-e-d dead.

Which kind of goes back to my original point about Murphy, what was originally appealing about her in my opinion, was her mortality.  The amazing stuff she was able to do stopped being believable, she became Bruce Lee on steroids, Annie Oakley with a high powered scope, all with a higher IQ than Einstein. So now that she is dead...

Can she be considered a higher functioning "zombie" now? Is that what an Einherjar is?  Does she still have free will since she is now one of Odin's Einherjar? Supposedly she won't return until she has passed out of living memory, but what of her memory? Imagine Harry's pain if she is brought back and he knows her, but she has no clue of who he is or cares.. 

[g33k]

Which kind of goes back to my original point about Murphy, what was originally appealing about her in my opinion, was her mortality.  The amazing stuff she was able to do stopped being believable ...

She was an extremely-advanced martial-arts practitioner; many of them are startlingly-competent.

I personally knew a "Murphy"-like person -- cute, small, blonde, senior aikidoka.  Nice lady, and when she came at you seriously she was the scariest person I've ever met (this with years of karate behind me).  I have literally seen another black-belt take a glance at her then turn and run away, on the mat!

When Murphy added the Sword at Chichén Itzá... yes, that turned her dial up to "11," and I liked it -- for her character, for the story -- that she decided to put the Sword back down again, afterwards.  The post-Changes Murphy was back to being a mortal, not Supermurphy; but she was much more being stretched to her limits, and barely-keeping-up.  Before that, with a couple of exceptions (vs the Nightmare & vs. Papa Raith), Murphy was mostly on top of even the supernatural situations.

From the high-fantasy action-adventure aspect of the Casefiles, Murphy was no longer a "viable" adventuring character to accompany Harry.

[Mira]

She was an extremely-advanced martial-arts practitioner; many of them are startlingly-competent.

  She had limits, Nic wiped the curb with her.. Then she removes her own casts, one minute she can barely walk, the next she manages to surprise and take down a Valkyrie? 

I personally knew a "Murphy"-like person -- cute, small, blonde, senior aikidoka.  Nice lady, and when she came at you seriously she was the scariest person I've ever met (this with years of karate behind me).  I have literally seen another black-belt take a glance at her then turn and run away, on the mat!

Maybe when she was physically whole and in shape, but as of Peace Talks and Battle Ground Murphy wasn't.  Even if she were in splints and doing physical therapy all along after Nic got done with her... She apparently wasn't because she had to cut her cast off, if you have ever worn a cast for a time or recovered in splints after orthopedic surgery, you know the limb doesn't instantly recover, even if you are doing physical therapy all along..

When Murphy added the Sword at Chichén Itzá... yes, that turned her dial up to "11," and I liked it -- for her character, for the story -- that she decided to put the Sword back down again, afterwards.  The post-Changes Murphy was back to being a mortal, not Supermurphy; but she was much more being stretched to her limits, and barely-keeping-up.  Before that, with a couple of exceptions (vs the Nightmare & vs. Papa Raith), Murphy was mostly on top of even the supernatural situations.

Which just wasn't realistic even for a fantasy.

From the high-fantasy action-adventure aspect of the Casefiles, Murphy was no longer a "viable" adventuring character to accompany Harry.

Which Murphy should never have been to begin with in my opinion. When we first meet her, smart, strong,a good shot and martial artist, she didn't need to become an action-adventure figure to be compelling.  Michael doesn't need any super human abilities, he had a Holy Sword, but he does pretty good without that.

Actually when you think of it, Murphy's actions was really a form of suicide.  With her injuries she wasn't up to really fighting any pitched physical battles, and actually could have made things worse had Harry been distracted trying to protect her.  Yes, she caught a bullet from a paranoid cop and died, and did manage to take out a giant with a bazooka before she died, but in the later physical battles where even the likes of Odin and Mab barely made it, she wouldn't have survived.  Yes, hard to stay behind at Mac's place to protect the people there, but Harry wasn't being over protective of her in doing that.  Actually it was her ego once again that she knew better, so she failed to follow orders, that's what got her killed.

[vincentric]

Well, in Battle Ground, Murphy is able to do the things she does because of the magical boost she's getting from Mab. Bob explains it to Harry and even holds up Murphy as an example of how it's working. If Murphy had survived Rudolph, I suspect she would have been left in charge to hold the impromptu fortress while Sanya, Butters and Harry went to ambush the Formor.

[Mira]

Well, in Battle Ground, Murphy is able to do the things she does because of the magical boost she's getting from Mab. Bob explains it to Harry and even holds up Murphy as an example of how it's working. If Murphy had survived Rudolph, I suspect she would have been left in charge to hold the impromptu fortress while Sanya, Butters and Harry went to ambush the Formor.

That was before the boost. 

[vincentric]

That was before the boost.

No, Mab doesn't start the boost until after they return from the island and go to Mac's. Before that, the only thing Murphy does is get the drop on Freydis at Chateau Wraith. That was a nice move, but it was mostly skill and underestimation that allowed her to pull it off. Karrin starts getting the boost when they leave Mac's and even then, she mostly rides her bike. No running, no fighting hand to hand, just some pain tolerance and the drive to fight.

[wardenferry419]

Murphy comes back in the last act of the last case book?

[raidem]

Or, she appears as an already on scene Immortal...Mab via one from alternate reality, past, present or future.  We do have WOJ that Mab can speak with the other Mabs in the multiverse though they really are too busy to bother.

[Mira]

Or, she appears as an already on scene Immortal...Mab via one from alternate reality, past, present or future.  We do have WOJ that Mab can speak with the other Mabs in the multiverse though they really are too busy to bother.

But Einherjar are not considered immortal.. According to Google and I just looked it up.

The Einherjar are specially honored dead. They are not immortals in the sense that they live forever, but the most honored of spirits who get special treatment in the afterlife. Most religions have such people, like the honored Greek dead who go to Elysium.

[magnuskn]

Come on guys, this "she can't come back as long as mortals remember her" is a thing Jim made up on the spot to avoid having to bring her back immediately (because he clearly was planning to write out his own personal pain of the last years in the next book and you can't have Harry happy for that). And it's in the series of books where Jim himself has said that Harry will have broken all the laws of magic by the end of the series. If Jim wanted Murphy out of the series permanently, he wouldn't have built in this backdoor.

Originally I was going to formulate my question more along the lines of "Harry is stated to break all the rules of magic during the runtime of the series, what is preventing him from also breaking this new, just made-up, rule?", but then I realized that I was denying Murphy her agency with this line of questioning. I'm pretty happy with the answer I got from Jim.