Q&A Fantasyfestival 2023 in Esbjerg/Denmark

[Mira]

Now that's an interesting thing, I believe it was in WoJs that we're told one of the uses of soulfire is to bring to life the Einherjar, so, if it's pre-christian, then it doesn't go with another WoJ where he said Odin got the soulfire when the christian god took over or something like that. But I guess it could be questionable since those two tidbits of information are not in the books while the 4000 years thing is on them.

 Archangels were around since the beginning of time, so before Christ.. Soul fire has been around since there were angels.  It could be that it was a deal Odin made with the Creator to allow for the conversion of the mortal humans who worshiped him as a god. 

As we all know, Harry will break all seven laws of magic by the end of the series. I'm pretty sure that he (and Murphy) will be able to circumvent this just made up "cosmic rule" (who made it a "cosmic rule", btw? Or did you just come up with that?) as well.

I call it a cosmic rule because quoting Gard, "That is the limit not even the Allfather can cross." Not made up, but a real limit.  If Odin cannot go past that limit, it sounds like a cosmic rule to me, set down by someone more powerful, the Creator perhaps? 

You are comparing apples to oranges, yes, Harry might break all Seven Laws of Magic before he is done, but those are still laws set up by mortal wizards, even Merlin himself was a mortal. The limit that the Allfather cannot cross, isn't a limit set by mortals.  At the end of the day, Murphy is still dead, she may be  Einherjar with limited Intellectus, which hasn't been defined yet, but she is still dead.

Murphy wouldn't be returning the world, Harry and Gard would be seeing her and Hendricks in Valhalla while seeking information.

Now that sounds plausible, but then again if it were that simple you'd think that Gard wouldn't be so upset over the loss of Hendricks. As a Valkyrie you'd think she could go see him in Valhalla at any time.. I think it's that pesky "limit," that cannot be crossed.. I'm not saying Jim won't find a way around it, but as I said be careful for what you wish for... Crossing those kinds of limits have real consequences.

[magnuskn]

I call it a cosmic rule because quoting Gard, "That is the limit not even the Allfather can cross." Not made up, but a real limit.  If Odin cannot go past that limit, it sounds like a cosmic rule to me, set down by someone more powerful, the Creator perhaps? 

You are comparing apples to oranges, yes, Harry might break all Seven Laws of Magic before he is done, but those are still laws set up by mortal wizards, even Merlin himself was a mortal. The limit that the Allfather cannot cross, isn't a limit set by mortals.  At the end of the day, Murphy is still dead, she may be  Einherjar with limited Intellectus, which hasn't been defined yet, but she is still dead.

Eh, dead is relative here. The Einherjar we've seen are walking around just fine. And, yeah, I believe Harry can break "cosmic laws" if he puts his mind to it. Also, to be honest, I find it all too suspicious how suddenly that "you totally can't see each other" plopped out of nowhere with Murphy dying and then getting revived. Seems like a placeholder to me, to keep Harry miserable for a while, just like putting a magic chastity belt on Molly to prevent a relationship developing there.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Kringle is a bona fide time traveller with the sanction of the White God, as Odin he is bound not to bring back an Einenjharen until they are lost to living memory. As Kringle he can bring them back in time to when they are needed. He just calls them his ‘elves’. If so his sanction pass is at its strongest on Christmas, and it is significant we haven’t seen anything beyond Christmas Eve. What if Christmas Day Murphy is back?

This sounds like EXACTLY the sort of cheat Odin wanted the Kringle Mantle for, not just to regain his immortality.

[magnuskn]

Jim wanted to take Murphy out of the story, but with an in-built cheat mechanism to later use her character again. It stands to reason therefore that getting her back will just be as hard or easy as Jim needs it to be to happen at the right moment. That Murphy will return at some point is pretty much guaranteed, otherwise Jim wouldn't have made her an Einherjar. I just think it'll be sooner rather than later.

[g33k]

RE the einherjar and soulfire, and:

... another WoJ where he said Odin got the soulfire when the christian god took over or something like that...

And then the quote

“Einherjar. Give them a little sip of renewed mortality, and four thousand years of discipline go right out the window”

There are IMO several (relatively-easy) resolutions.

First and most-trivial:  Sigrun Gard is likely an unreliable narrator, just like Harry himself.  Four thousand years, two thousand years, meh... no difference, really.

Second:  while "Christianity" is explicitly 2000 years old, the "Christian God" is explicitly the same as the Jewish God, and thus thousands of years older (the Exodus from Egypt being about 1500BC).

Third:  despite what many think, the Norse "old ways" aren't all that old.  The Eddas were 13th C; the "Viking Age" began about year 800; and the oldest examples of Eldest Futhark runes and other "Proto-Norse" inscriptions are from the 2nd C.  Obviously, these represented an extant culture & tradition, not something brand-new.  But it puts the origins of Norse ways REMARKABLY close in time to the beginning of Christianity, hmmm?

No reason at all that Young Odin couldn't have made a deal with post-Christ Yahweh, and then Soulfire'd some centuries-old warrior-ghosts (think Sir Stuart) to jumpstart his corps of fighters.

[Mira]

No reason at all that Young Odin couldn't have made a deal with post-Christ Yahweh, and then Soulfire'd some centuries-old warrior-ghosts (think Sir Stuart) to jumpstart his corps of fighters.
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  He could have made a deal with post-Christ Yahweh. Theory, Odin knows he will need an army at some point for Ragnarok, but only Yahweh has  archangels etc... So he comes up with the idea of using the best human warriors that died in battle to fight for him.  However they are dead, he needs soul fire to animate them and give them limited intellectus.. No, idea what Yahweh gets in return.. 

[g33k]

... he needs soul fire to animate them and give them limited intellectus...

I think it's specifically the Valkyries who have the intellectus, and the intellectus is about the deeds & heroism of einherjaren, so they (the Valk's) make good choices.

[Mira]

I think it's specifically the Valkyries who have the intellectus, and the intellectus is about the deeds & heroism of einherjaren, so they (the Valk's) make good choices.

 Here is the wording from Gard on page 365 of Battle Ground;

She waved her hand vaguely at her temple. "It's a limited intellectus, of the honored dead, of their deeds."

She doesn't say it is her intellectus, but " intellectus of the honored dead, of their deeds." The Valkyrie select the dead warriors based on their lives and how they died.  In Valhalla the dead warriors live,party, train, fight, get torn apart, some die again, to live again, be put back together, live again in the halls, party and do it all over again. 

[g33k]

Here is the wording from Gard on page 365 of Battle Ground;

She waved her hand vaguely at her temple. "It's a limited intellectus, of the honored dead, of their deeds."

She doesn't say it is her intellectus, but " intellectus of the honored dead, of their deeds." The Valkyrie select the dead warriors based on their lives and how they died...

<nod> Just so.

She waves at her own temple, and she describes the intellectus needed to be a Chooser of the Slain.

The intellectus she describes isn't really ... relevant to an einherjar.  It isn't like it's an intellectus of combat-syles, of martial arts.
 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The White God has a proscription about the heavy hitters being in the mortal world, we aren’t told this, but we see it in action, The Queensare as powerful as is required.

We know Odin traded away the majority of his power to stay in the mortal world and needs the Kringle mantle to retain his immortality. He presumably made a deal with Uriel to surrender thats what the White God got - the remainder of Odin’s godhood and presumably that of his sons. This probably went into making the mantles in the first place. The Mothers answer to the names of the Norns for example.

In return Odin gets Soulfire at the time of Christ. He later gets the Kringle mantle say at the 13th Century. Do you know what Kringle means?

From Wikipedia

Kringle (/ˈkrɪŋɡəl/, listenⓘ) is a Northern European pastry, a variety of pretzel. Pretzels were introduced by Roman Catholic monks in the 13th century in Denmark, and from there they spread throughout Scandinavia and evolved into several kinds of sweet, salty or filled pastries, all in the shape of kringle.

Twisted or knotty like a pretzel describes Odin perfectly. And the timing fits perfectly. Jim uses words and names purposefully. At the same time we get the Christmas gift givers in multiple cultures start to arise, reinforcing the Christmas mythos.

Odin himself used the Valknut, Kringle uses the Kringle, both are knots.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I'm skipping several pages of posts because I want to (briefly) talk about Murphy.  Remember that after Susan got half-turned into a red court vampire she came back for exactly two books.  There was many times when Harry mentioned Susan, but only two times after Grave Peril did she play a significant role in Harry's story.

I suspect that if; who am I kidding, when Murphy returns it will be a one and done story.  At most she might be in two books if we get something like Peace Talks / Battle Ground again.  I don't think anything like that will happen until the BAT.  I don't see Murphy returning as Harry's new semi-permanent Valkyrie sidekick or Einherjar buddy.  She will come back for a specific purpose and help Harry in a case that will end up requiring Murphy to use her new abilities to help Harry.  Beyond that I won't speculate any further.  Ok, I'll make one guess.  Harry owes Vadderung a favor.  Helping Harry pay off that debt would be good reason for Murphy to return.

If I am right, this could assuage fears that Murphy's return to the series would be forced and poorly written.  I thought Susan's new abilities worked pretty well in Death Masks.  A Murphy with new abilities, but also one with new responsibilities and new limits imposed on her could work well for a single story.

[magnuskn]

If this were a series with an unlimited number of books coming, it's not impossible that Jim would be working towards a new significant relationship for Harry. However, we are at book 17 of what either will be 22 + 3 books or 25 + 3 books (depending if I heard correctly that the number of books has grown to the latter. I might simply have misunderstood Jim there, too). That means, to me, unless the endgame for Harry is Molly, which I don't believe it is, it will very probably still be Murphy as his significant other. I don't see a new serious romantic interest popping up just a few books before things get really hairy with the BAT. Therefore, as soon as Murphy comes back, she'll probably stay for good.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I actually like Lara as a continuing love interest. She won't be as hands-on as Murphy (As an active sidekick at least, personal life will be the exact opposite.) but if she's assigning Freydis to him and giving him money and information then she taking over Murphy's roles. ...


And wouldn't it be like Jim to remove Harry's protection and still have Harry's touch burn her when he kisses the bride.

I agree that there is some chemistry between Harry and Lara, even if she is a monster.  I could see a bond building between them during the next story.  I suppose that at some point the dates between them will collide with Harry dealing with supernatural shenanigans.  Near the end of the story during the final date both Harry and Lara are forced to fight, but not simply to survive.  Each of them will be willing to lay down their life to help the other survive, neither of them knowing the other is still up and fighting. (Or some variation of this scenario.)  No greater love than to lay down your life for another.  So Lara getting burned by Harry on their wedding day isn't an impossible idea, just an unlikely one.

I know this idea is more than a little fanfictionee.  (Yes, I just made up a new word. Deal with it. )  Aside from being a shipper's delight it would create a real dilemma for Lara.  if the members of the White Court found out Lara had fallen in love it would probably destroy her credibility as the leader of the Court.  I don't think Mab would very happy with this turn of events either.  She talked about combining bloodlines.  That couldn't happen if Lara gets burned every time she touches Harry.  Plus, Harry would also be tortured by both his desire for Lara and the Winter mantle pushing him to rip her cloths off.

I know someone out there is thinking that Harry knows that Justine found a way around this dilemma, but would Harry want to share this idea with Lara?  It's not something he would be comfortable with, but I'm pretty sure that Lara wouldn't have a problem with it.

What I think is far more likely to happen is a that a real bond will appear to be forming between Harry and Lara, but Lara's demon will assert itself in a really nasty way and this will derail any possibility of a lasting romantic relationship between these two characters.     

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry is not the casual sex type, he will only get romantically involved with someone he believes lives him. This was only reinforced by Luccio’ s love being a chemical Sham. Harry would need to love Lara and I don’t think that is possible. She might however certainly end up loving Harry.

[magnuskn]

Harry is not the casual sex type, he will only get romantically involved with someone he believes lives him. This was only reinforced by Luccio’ s love being a chemical Sham. Harry would need to love Lara and I don’t think that is possible. She might however certainly end up loving Harry.

I seriously don't see it. She's the controlling type all-around and Harry is not the kind of person who can be controlled or would appreciate attempts to control him. See his constant head-butting with Mab and Marcone.