Dabble Interview 23 August 2023

[g33k]

... Her father was also a minor talent...

Wizardly "Salic Law" suggests that the mother's line matters for magical talent, not the fathers.

OTOH, that's from unreliable-narrator Harry.

WoJ says IIRC that Ebenezer's wife -- Margeret LeFay's mother -- was NOT a magical talent... whither Salic Law, hmmm?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry who has had multiple entities playing in his head, and numerous concussions, an unreliable narrator.

[Cthoniq]

For the apprentice my money is on Austin the Warlock from Zoo Day. He's already displayed 3 different magical abilities, all significant wizard level stuff.
1. Summoning multiple dangerous entities from the nevernever with zero prep work or ritual items.
2. Directed mental influencen strong enough to affect a wizard. Harry does blow it off pretty easily, but considering we've seen him power through very strong mental attacks with nothing but willpower, the fact that he used an actual spell to deflect austin's whammy is significant.
3. Ambient energy strong enough to affect entire crowds of people in the zoo, what harry describes as a place full of life and energy. Victor Sells was a full on sorcerer, and even he needed months of steady work to get his own house all dark and moody.

I know that Rat was pushing Austin, but the kid obviously has significant juice, several talents, and is leaning towards warlock already. Harry won't foist him off on the council, but austin clearly needs instruction or he'll keep hurting people.

[Mira]

For the apprentice my money is on Austin the Warlock from Zoo Day. He's already displayed 3 different magical abilities, all significant wizard level stuff.
1. Summoning multiple dangerous entities from the nevernever with zero prep work or ritual items.
2. Directed mental influencen strong enough to affect a wizard. Harry does blow it off pretty easily, but considering we've seen him power through very strong mental attacks with nothing but willpower, the fact that he used an actual spell to deflect austin's whammy is significant.
3. Ambient energy strong enough to affect entire crowds of people in the zoo, what harry describes as a place full of life and energy. Victor Sells was a full on sorcerer, and even he needed months of steady work to get his own house all dark and moody.

I know that Rat was pushing Austin, but the kid obviously has significant juice, several talents, and is leaning towards warlock already. Harry won't foist him off on the council, but austin clearly needs instruction or he'll keep hurting people.

I think you are on to something.  Harry has a belief that young talented kids can easily take a wrong turn if not guided properly and can be redeemed.  That's one thing he really doesn't see eye to eye with the Merlin about.  The Merlin seems to feel that once a kid slips on that black magic banana peel it is a down hill slide ending with the chop.  Both views have their points, the Merlin feels that a little preventive chop action is worth a ton of trying to undo the damage a full blown warlock can do.  Harry thinks that there are few misguided kids that cannot be redeemed if a master wizard chooses to take the risk and the trouble to redeem the kid.. The Korean Kid as pointed out by the Merlin did a lot of damage, and though young wasn't redeemable.  Harry sees himself as a case of redemption though he has slipped on that black magic banana peel from time to time, but hasn't quite fallen on his behind yet.  I don't think Molly ever really thought that what she did to try and help her friends was wrong, even though it did a lot of damage.  I think it was this little fact that made her attractive to Mab to train up as a potential Lady.

[SerScot]

Is “the Law” available in anthology yet?

[vincentric]

Is “the Law” available in anthology yet?

No, but it's $4.99 US on Kindle.

[The_Sibelis]

WoJ says IIRC that Ebenezer's wife -- Margeret LeFay's mother -- was NOT a magical talent... whither Salic Law, hmmm?

his precise answer was,"well... She was mortal. So there's that."
Considering Thomas is "mortal" to mab, we really can't give that any context. That she was not a practitioner is inferred from this, but without any context to what counts as mortal.

[Mira]

Wizardly "Salic Law" suggests that the mother's line matters for magical talent, not the fathers.

OTOH, that's from unreliable-narrator Harry.

WoJ says IIRC that Ebenezer's wife -- Margeret LeFay's mother -- was NOT a magical talent... whither Salic Law, hmmm?

However as genetic lines go, that doesn't mean that Harry's great grandmother didn't have talent, passed the gene on to Harry's grandmother, who while having no talent herself passed the gene on along with Eb to their daughter, Margaret.

[g33k]

However as genetic lines go, that doesn't mean that Harry's great grandmother didn't have talent, passed the gene on to Harry's grandmother, who while having no talent herself passed the gene on along with Eb to their daughter, Margaret.

I just think that we -- the fans -- don't really have a solid basis for theorizing about genetic lineages of wizards.

Between Harry being an "unreliable narrator" (which sometimes may include simply being mistaken or ignorant about his info) and Jim Butcher seemingly-intentionally avoiding giving definitive answers, I think "what we can be sure of" in this regard is a vanishingly-small basis for drawing any conclusions, inferences, extrapolations, etc...

[Mira]

I just think that we -- the fans -- don't really have a solid basis for theorizing about genetic lineages of wizards.

Between Harry being an "unreliable narrator" (which sometimes may include simply being mistaken or ignorant about his info) and Jim Butcher seemingly-intentionally avoiding giving definitive answers, I think "what we can be sure of" in this regard is a vanishingly-small basis for drawing any conclusions, inferences, extrapolations, etc...

Oh I don't disagree with that, often repeated is it is passed though the mother's side of the family, generally. All I pointed out is it is possible for the gene to be carried by the mother, and she, herself, not have talent. There are lots of examples of that in the real world.  So just because Harry's grandmother supposedly had no talent herself, that doesn't mean she didn't carry the gene.  We can quickly get into the weeds when we start talking dominant/recessive genes, sex linked genes, etc.. Listens To Wind has enough science as well as magical background to explain it, though he hasn't.  Harry maybe an unreliable narrator, but in the case of who has and passes the gene on for magical talent, it is a complicated subject.  As you say, we just don't know enough to say that Harry is right, wrong, or both.

[g33k]

... Listens To Wind has enough science as well as magical background to explain it, though he hasn't ...

It is IMO highly-possible that:
 - it doesn't actually follow the rules of "science" (it is magic, after all!)
 - it follows scientific rules, but magic-power inheritance is subtle/complex enough and hard-enough-to-study (science mixing poorly with magic) that nobody has actually put in the needed time & effort to figure it out
 - Jim hasn't actually decided on the rules, because he wants to be free to write characters however he wants/needs, and not have weird early-episode decisions get in the way of the story... or just thinks it doesn't matter.

[The_Sibelis]

Repetition of thought to exclude having to address my reply? Mmm, once was an accident, twice is intentionally. Let's go for three tho, so nobody has to wonder about them pumped up kicks.

[Mira]

It is IMO highly-possible that:
 - it doesn't actually follow the rules of "science" (it is magic, after all!)
 - it follows scientific rules, but magic-power inheritance is subtle/complex enough and hard-enough-to-study (science mixing poorly with magic) that nobody has actually put in the needed time & effort to figure it out
 - Jim hasn't actually decided on the rules, because he wants to be free to write characters however he wants/needs, and not have weird early-episode decisions get in the way of the story... or just thinks it doesn't matter.

I don't know if in the case of inheritance of talent that it can't both follow science and magic at the same time.  It gives Jim perfect freedom, which ever way he chooses or not to explain it. When a young would be wizard or warlock is described, it is said that their talent as awakened,not their magic.  Talent is the level of power they were born with, magic is what they learn.  I agree that talent is an elusive thing, while it could very well be true that talent/power is passed on by the mother.. The power level of that talent isn't predictable and is complex, lots of potential wizards are born, but truly gifted and powerful wizards are rare.  I seem to remember Thomas quoting Harry as he did a simple tracking spell that all humans are born with some talent.  Thomas is a complex example, Butters could pull off a magic circle, but I think a tracking spell is a step up.  Thomas has never claimed to have much if any talent, though I do think it isn't all that easy to pull off a tracking spell without some talent.  We know who his mother was, so you'd think he'd inherit some from her, since he used a spell to kill Margaret, Lord Raith must have talent as well... One has to wonder, just how much talent does Thomas have?

[g33k]

No, but it's $4.99 US on Kindle.

Many of us (including me) vastly prefer to read, than be read-to.

Spending $5 on a single short already looks like an expensive way to get our Dresden fix... further reducing the value by making it an audio-only format is ... well... it's insult to injury, honestly.

[g33k]

... Mmm, once was an accident ...

Honestly, it looks like she's just replying to others, not engaging with you.

Based on what you've stated recently elsethread, that seems like the best thing; I advise you to try to avoid further engaging, rather than trying to get her to engage further.

(n.b. I am not a mod.  But I note a moderator there has called for cool-down.)