Author Topic: Let's take another look at Elaine ...  (Read 3894 times)

Offline g33k

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2023, 06:53:56 PM »
...  We don't have any independent confirmation of anything she did between Justin DuMorne's death and Summer Knight.

Except that we know she worked her way startlingly-high-up in the councils and plots of the Nemesis-affected Summer Lady.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2023, 06:07:07 AM »
No she was an Emissary all obligation and no power, just like Harry.

Offline Mira

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2023, 10:31:48 AM »
No she was an Emissary all obligation and no power, just like Harry.

  Not when she fled to Summer after Justin was blown up by Harry.  To be an Emissary, you have to represent something, Elaine wasn't a part of the White Council. So who was she representing?

Offline Mira

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2023, 10:33:33 AM »
Ref A:  https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,54257.msg2345633.html#msg2345633
Ref B:  https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,50129.msg2289460.html#msg2289460
Ref C:  https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,53049.msg2318077.html#msg2318077

  The above are previous posts by me about Elaine Mallory.
  I think that Jim Butcher said at one point that Elaine was a potential starborn.  He did not confirm if she actually was a starborn or not.
  There is probably something very significant in Elaine Mallory's backstory, but we don't know what it is yet.  We don't   have any independent confirmation of anything she did between Justin DuMorne's death and Summer Knight.

APG

Agreed.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2023, 11:53:59 AM »
Yup, she’s hiding something, something which she knows will dreadfully upset Harry.

Offline vincentric

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2023, 04:15:40 PM »
Sadly, I think this is true of every character in the series that isn't a present or former Knight of the Cross.

Offline g33k

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2023, 05:34:06 PM »
No she was an Emissary all obligation and no power, just like Harry.
She was part of Aurora's "inner circle," the Summer Lady's closest confidants who were supporting her insane plan to sacrifice the Summer Knight's Mantle.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2023, 11:33:21 PM »
She was a thug, a lackey, she had to go along with the person holding her agreement, as stated she was likely under a geas, a mortal.

Offline Mira

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2023, 08:38:00 PM »
She was part of Aurora's "inner circle," the Summer Lady's closest confidants who were supporting her insane plan to sacrifice the Summer Knight's Mantle.

 In all fairness, inner circle or not, who aside from Titania, [which she failed to do] is going to
successfully reason or argue with an insane Neminfected Summer Lady?

Offline g33k

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2023, 04:11:43 AM »
... who ... is going to
successfully reason or argue with ...
No one, obviously!

Because:
... an insane Neminfected Summer Lady?
of this.

I mean... Maybe someone like Eldest Gruff might try.
But, "insane" & "Nemfected" and thus not happening.

I daresay the cunning manipulative Nemfected part kept the insane plan well-hidden from those like Eldest Gruff, who would doubtless have told Titania straight away.

Offline Mira

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2023, 05:06:15 PM »
Quote
I daresay the cunning manipulative Nemfected part kept the insane plan well-hidden from those like Eldest Gruff, who would doubtless have told Titania straight away.

Very good point, and by the time Titania realized it, like Mab with Maeve, it was too late and death was the only answer.  Titania knew that and that is why she didn't kill Harry outright for Aurora's death.  What she objected to was the death by a million steel cuts from the knives, "swords" of the Wee Folk at Harry's bidding. 

Offline g33k

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2023, 04:53:28 PM »
...  What she objected to was the death by a million steel cuts from the knives, "swords" of the Wee Folk at Harry's bidding.
The heart wants what the heart wants; Titania's heart wanted her daughter alive, even though her mind understood why Aurora had to die.

"A million steel cuts" may have seemed like an horrible way to die (salt in Titania's wound) but the essence of her pain and rage was simply that Aurora was killed.

Mab had a similar pain & rage over Maeve's death (those times when she used others' voices, because her own would have damaged Harry).  She "got it out of her system" ahead of time, and was icy-cold by the time she gave the order to her new Winter Knight.

Offline Mira

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2023, 05:24:18 PM »
Quote
The heart wants what the heart wants; Titania's heart wanted her daughter alive, even though her mind understood why Aurora had to die.

"A million steel cuts" may have seemed like an horrible way to die (salt in Titania's wound) but the essence of her pain and rage was simply that Aurora was killed.

Mab had a similar pain & rage over Maeve's death (those times when she used others' voices, because her own would have damaged Harry).  She "got it out of her system" ahead of time, and was icy-cold by the time she gave the order to her new Winter Knight.
  Of course the heart wants what the heart wants, but one has to think of the greater good.  I also think the manner of death was a huge factor..  If you know your loved one has to die, be executed if you will, whether it is a quick and relatively painless one verses a painful slower one matters.. Maeve's death was quick, and enabled by Mab herself, still very painful to Mab, but she didn't seek revenge for it.  Aurora's death was painful and slower, that's what Titania cannot forgive. I don't know what you mean about Mab "getting it out of her system" before she realized that Maeve was infected beyond help and had to die.

Offline g33k

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Re: Let's take another look at Elaine ...
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2023, 11:25:22 PM »
... but one has to think of the greater good ...
That's why Harry was still alive.
But still, Titania experiences the agony of loss, and rage against the instrument of her loss.

... Aurora's death was painful and slower, that's what Titania cannot forgive ...
It was painful, yes.  But still only a matter of a few minutes, at most.  Not lingering in extended agony (as some mortals must (as Aurora's co-conspirator Lloyd Slate did)).

... I don't know what you mean about Mab "getting it out of her system" before she realized that Maeve was infected beyond help and had to die.
Not before she realized, but when she realized.  We don't know exactly what happened.  But several books before Harry is ordered to kill Maeve, Mab showed up using Grimalkin as a her sockpuppet.  I understood that to be Mab's 1st scene after learning that Nemesis had taken Maeve (and thus, that Mab herself would most likely need to arrange Maeve's death).

By the time of Cold Days, Mab has somehow "gotten it out of her system" (or "come to terms" with it, however you want to say it) and she is able to speak normally.