Let's take another look at Elaine ...

[g33k]

Re-reading White Night, where Elaine turns up "copying Harry" -- doing the P.I. do-gooder gig in LA, yellow-pages listing under "Wizard," etc.

As some here may recall, I like her (a lot) as the Nemesis-vector into Summer (Nemfecting Aurora; having been Nemfected herself under the tutelage (and mind-control magic) of Outsider-summoning Justin DuMorne).

This isn't, I hope, I thread where we re-argue that old case, except if it becomes relevant to other issues.

I'd like to look at other Elaine-y things...

To begin with, I had forgotten how long she was on her own, after Justin died (or faked his death in the firestorm Harry conveniently provided; or whatever).  A year, more or less.

Which gives me a significant WTF moment, really.

Harry never succumbed to DuMorne's mental domination.  After the fight, Harry moved more-or-less directly into McCoy's grounded, ethical, teaching -- the why of magic, rather than merely how.

Elaine got fully dominated, her will enslaved.  Enough-so to actively help Justin capture Harry (although he broke free).  But when Harry came back, he burned down her home and killed her father-figure (who had just betrayed her, which she knew at some level); and it likely seemed to her like Harry tried to kill her, too.

We know how much mental-domination screws-up the minds of the victims, even without all the added trauma of that incident!  Then she was on her own -- recovering from all that shit -- for a year.

Elaine Mallory should be way, way, way more screwed-up than she is!  So... why isn't she?

Offhand:  one answer might be the deal she made with Summer, who's really good at the whole living/healing/growing side of things, probably even in matters of the psyche.  She might have bargained for her sanity, her mental composure; or Summer may have healed her for reasons of their own.

Any other/alternative theories?  Refinements of mine?

Honestly, "she just got better on her own" doesn't really satisfy; not unless she's genuinely Starborn, and has some inherent uber-recovery (more than normal wizards) against that stuff.  Which, I guess, is possible; but has very little corroborating evidence (compared e.g. to a Summerfae involvement).

Next up:  the ever-popular "Elaine=Kumori" theory.  It's a pretty minor bit of evidence, but in DB Kumori is wielding a magic-item consisting of a "mesh," and in WN Elaine is wielding a "fishing net;" coincidence, or a wizard working bigger and more-elaborate iterations on a theme?

Third, the topic of "where (from whom) did Elaine get further training; and what training did she get?"

Once again, "from the Summerfae" is an easy answer to part (a) -- we know Eldest Gruff is a pretty badass wizard.  As to part (b) ... healing/growth/etc magic would be very-Summery, and Elaine is notable there (as is Kumori, of course!).  In a faerie court, she'd have learned all manner of deception, both magical and psychological.  What else?

But... what about the year beforehand (presuming we can trust her claim there)?  Did she have any tutor/mentor?  Did she study or improve, magically?  Or was it a "time passed; she endured" sort of year?

Then there's the 3ish Dresden'verse years between SK and DB, plus 2ish more to WN.  Did Lily "inherit" Elaine's debt with the Mantle?  Or -- given the possible anti-Mantle "Destroy creation" agenda of Aurora's Nemfected plan -- did Mother Summer nullify all Aurora's "heritable assets," set Elaine free?  What did Elaine do, in this time?  Just become "LA Harry" -- Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden, only with grace & style, and really sexy?

Let's compare Harry, what he had, how he got there.

He had Ebenezers' lessons, practical grounding, etc.  Likely some texts/references from him, too.  And Harry had Bob.  That's a freaking LOT of resources a budding wizard wants/needs; Bob is actually way MORE than most ever get!

Did Elaine get corresponding stuff -- tutelage, tomes, etc -- from Summer??!?
How the heck is she such a near-peer of Harry's?

[Mira]

Did Elaine get corresponding stuff -- tutelage, tomes, etc -- from Summer??!?
How the heck is she such a near-peer of Harry's?

Good question, was it because she too a star born?  They seem to be popping up under a lot of rocks these days.  Here is something that confuses me from  Summer Knight, and it could be because Jim has reworked the scene of Harry's escape from Justin or Harry's memory of it a couple of times. But remember when Aurora orders Elaine to tie Harry up in Summer Knight and Harry manages to escape.. Because Elaine used the same knots she used when Justin ordered her to tie him up and he escaped? Weird, because the memory that Lea brings back to him in Ghost Story is totally different. But what I am trying to say is if that bit about the knots in Summer Knight is true, Elaine was never under Justin's control either, because she helped Harry escape from him. 

We also learned in Ghost Story that it isn't impossible for talented wizards to get powerful doing their own study, and successfully hiding the fact from the Wardens.  Here is my theory, I agree with the idea that Elaine brought the Nemfection to Aurora, who says she still isn't infected?

I mean Justine managed to hide the fact that she was possessed by He Who Walks Beside, not just from Thomas, but Harry as well at first.  What if this is also the case with Elaine? Or because she is star born like Harry, she managed to use Nemesis to get powerful and then throw it off.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

First If Elaine is Starborn she shouldn’t be capable of nemfection. Jim has vacillated on this point as regards Starborn status, so either theory as regards Elaine Starborn status/Nemfection Vector is valid until further information is received. This does not mean however that something she bore with her infected Aurora, like Lea and the Athame. If she were pregnant and her non-Starborn child were nem-fected, then if she offered her firstborn to Aurora in return for sanctuary and healing then that would make sense, her obligation would be discharged when the child reached its majority. Justin knew of the relationship and Harry says he knew nothing of Faerie so therefore neither did Elaine. Was this the plan all along to use a pregnant Elaine as a nem vector? A Trojan horse? The infection of Lea was much later.

We should suspect anything Elaine has told Harry about her past.

Second Nemesis has always sought out those one remove from power, Lea, Maeve, Justine. Elaine does not currently fit that pattern so she is likely Nem free at the moment and if Starborn May always have been.

[Mira]

First If Elaine is Starborn she shouldn’t be capable of nemfection.

Why not?  It maybe that his ability to resit Outsiders is a skill particular to Harry and not other star born. Harry is unlike the couple of other star born we've met.  As I said, I think Malcolm is the key here, his qualities that Harry inherited as Margaret hoped he would makes all the difference.

[g33k]

... But remember when Aurora orders Elaine to tie Harry up in Summer Knight and Harry manages to escape.. Because Elaine used the same knots she used when Justin ordered her to tie him up and he escaped? ...

I recall that differently (but do not have my copy of the book to hand, so I cannot check):  The "immobilization" spell was a homework-assignment from Justin, that they worked out together.  It had a serious weakness/flaw because (a) it was designed by apprentices; & (b) their real motivation was to get done with homework ASAP so they could go be horny teens together.

I don't recall that specific spell being explicitly part of (or not part of) Elaine sandbagging Harry for Justin...  Though if she *did* use a spell with a known weakness, she may have done so accidentally, being fuzzy-brained from the mind-control spells.  Or maybe (being horny teens, and only apprentices) they hadn't realized the weakness when they crafted it.

... We also learned in Ghost Story that it isn't impossible for talented wizards to get powerful doing their own study, and successfully hiding the fact from the Wardens ...

You mean "Aristedes"?  He wasn't all that powerful, really.  A bit of mind-magic, IIRC, but it didn't seem like a serious strength (I don't think he was as strong as Korean Kid).  Mostly, I thought, Aristedes was a typical "one trick pony" sorceror, with his kinetomancy / speed schtick.

Pretty potent if it's a surprise, but most full-blown WC wizards will likely know multiple ways to hobble his pony!

But, yeah.  A wizard doesn't need books & references for everything.  They can learn stuff by trial and error (hence, mind-magic going so easily toward Black Magic!).  But physical stuff like Aristedes' kinetomancy looks like prime material for self-tutelage!

Lightning-magic (e.g. Elaine's "Fulminaris" spell (or whatever almost-Latin she used)) not so much; one mistake can be fatal.  And Elaine was not a one-trick pony, she had a robust suite of magical abilities, like Harry did...  Harry, who used a LOT of books for reference, AND had Bob on-hand.  How did Elaine keep up?  How was she still in Harry's weight-class?
 

...  Here is my theory, I agree with the idea that Elaine brought the Nemfection to Aurora, who says she still isn't infected?

I mean Justine managed to hide the fact that she was possessed by He Who Walks Beside, not just from Thomas, but Harry as well at first.  What if this is also the case with Elaine? ...

I too think it highly-likely.
A nemfected agent atop the Paranet?  It'd give Harry the screaming heebie-jeebies!
How could Jim possibly resist?

... Or because she is star born like Harry, she managed to use Nemesis to get powerful and then throw it off.

There's an interesting thought!

[g33k]

... We should suspect anything Elaine has told Harry about her past.

THIS!
So much this.

... Second Nemesis has always sought out those one remove from power, Lea, Maeve, Justine. Elaine does not currently fit that pattern ...

Elaine, sent to make a bargain with Aurora, would indeed be placed one remove from power.
Similarly, as gf/firstlove to Starborn Harry, she's one remove from him.
As head of the Paranet, she's one remove from the White Council.
She's one remove from Ramirez, the Regional Commander of the Wardens; make her move on him, and she'd be one remove from the Captain.

... This does not mean however that something she bore with her infected Aurora, like Lea and the Athame. If she were pregnant and her non-Starborn child were nem-fected, then if she offered her firstborn to Aurora in return for sanctuary and healing then that would make sense, her obligation would be discharged when the child reached its majority. Justin knew of the relationship and Harry says he knew nothing of Faerie so therefore neither did Elaine. Was this the plan all along to use a pregnant Elaine as a nem vector? A Trojan horse? The infection of Lea was much later ...

Jim has said there will be no more "surprise family" (bro-Thomas, Gramps-Eb, kids Maggie & Bonnie; all came as surprises).  Of course, Jim lies sometimes.  And he could always change his mind.

But Elaine could *still* have gotten pregnant, after the Justin blow-up.  Traumatized young woman, living without resources... it's all too easy to envision.  Or maybe the child was Justin's (sexual congress as part of the binding-ritual).  I don't really see any way for this alternative *not* to be a pretty dark part of Elaine's backstory, to be honest...

But I don't think we need to go there.

Justin undoubtedly had a bunch of other magical items; Harry walked away with Bob, maybe Elaine took something too!  Such an item could have been a Nemfection vector.  I'd place a pretty long-odds bet that Aurora was already sad about all the suffering from the Summer/Winter conflict, which (under Nemesis' influence) became an obsession & madness... some artifact of Gaia, perhaps?  Tempting her to "strengthen the world"?

[Mira]

I recall that differently (but do not have my copy of the book to hand, so I cannot check):  The "immobilization" spell was a homework-assignment from Justin, that they worked out together.  It had a serious weakness/flaw because (a) it was designed by apprentices; & (b) their real motivation was to get done with homework ASAP so they could go be horny teens together.

I don't recall that specific spell being explicitly part of (or not part of) Elaine sandbagging Harry for Justin...  Though if she *did* use a spell with a known weakness, she may have done so accidentally, being fuzzy-brained from the mind-control spells.  Or maybe (being horny teens, and only apprentices) they hadn't realized the weakness when they crafted it.

Here is the passage I was thinking of, but didn't care to look for at five this morning with just a swallow of coffee.. Now it is 100 degrees outside, so what else is a girl to do?

Summer Knight, paperback pages 311- 312 bolding mine

Aurora had just ordered Elaine to bind Harry magically and then she was going to kill him;
page 311

"Just like old times," I wheezed.  "Yeah, just like old times, Elaine.  You backstabbing,poisonous,treacherous. . ."
  And then the thought hit me. Just like old times.
"...deceitful,wicked,clevergirl. If this works I'll buy you a pony."

Harry has realized that something is off about Elaine, that she couldn't do anything to him that would bring about his death and, feel nothing. On 312 he starts mentally reaching out and testing the spell she had put on him.

I'd been right. It was the same binding she'd used when we were kids, when she'd been holding me down while my old master, Justin DuMorne, prepared to enthrall me. I'd found a way out as a kid, because Elaine and I shared a certain impatience for our magical studies..

And yes, their magical experiments led to sexual experiments etc.. But that is beside the point, the point is the binding that the supposedly enthralled Elaine put on Harry so Justin could also enthrall him didn't work, Harry got away and we know the rest of the story.  I guess you can look at it two ways, 1] Elaine was enthralled, but because her and Harry did their homework, it was a lucky coincidence that he knew the binding and was able to get away, or.. 2] Elaine wasn't enthralled after all, was able to fool Justin into thinking she was, used a binding on Harry that they had worked on together and he was able to escape.. In the Summer Knight passage as she binds him as per Aurora's orders she reminds him of that and he is able to undo the binding and get away again.. Now ask yourself, if Elaine had really been enthralled when Justin ordered her to bind Harry, would she have remembered just what she did so that he could get away, not just the first time but remind him so he could get away the second as well?  I think not, but that's a personal opinion, oh, one more thing, Elaine also had Aurora fooled that she was under her control when she magically bounded up Harry, not unlike when she had Justin fooled.

You mean "Aristedes"?  He wasn't all that powerful, really.  A bit of mind-magic, IIRC, but it didn't seem like a serious strength (I don't think he was as strong as Korean Kid).  Mostly, I thought, Aristedes was a typical "one trick pony" sorceror, with his kinetomancy / speed schtick.

No, I mean Mort, who Harry concludes by the end of Ghost Story is a much more powerful wizard in the area he works than the White Council realizes.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Paranet doesn’t count as a power, the supernatural world doesn’t discount it, they don’t even consider it. If they did they would pay for a hacking attack and disrupt it. So no Elaine’s position in it does not fit the pattern of Nemesis infiltration. She was also subject to a Whamp attack Nemesis should have defeated and subject to a mindlink with Harry which should have raised suspicion. Nemesis had moved on by this point if she was nemfected in the first place.

Similarly with Summer, Elaine had no power or confidences in Summer until appointed their emissary well after Aurora was nemfected. The Timeline is wrong if nemfected she was merely the Athame a powerless vector, not an active agent. Aurora was always the target to undermine Titania, Mab’s watchdog. Summer Knight was probably intended to kick off a prolonged War between Summer and Winter,  with Aurora and Lea working to make it as damaging as possible, like Count Dooku and Palpatine but each at one remove, weaken the Accords and weaken defence of the Gates.

We don’t know whether or not Elaine is Starborn mainly because Jim has vacillated over what the term means. However Justin used good old mortal mind control on her despite having access to the Walkers, this would suggest that if she was Starborn she was immune to their influence and required a mortal influencer instead, like Harry would, otherwise you would go straight to the walker.

Yes I am familiar that Jim said no more secret family it is an overused trope flogged to death by Jim in the series BUT that makes it more likely than less as Jim originally used this as an exercise to stick it to his professor. When told readers don’t like ‘talking heads’ giving exposition he created Bob doing exactly that. The orphan finding long lost family has been used no less than six times already (including the interludes with Margaret and Malcolm).Besides Harry being challenged by an annoying wizard who he can’t place but seems strangely  familiar would be fun. And Titania would love to use such a son against Harry. Besides there is the whole James thing if Harry is a surrogate for Jim. Besides Harry must be there to seen his son burn down his first building. I would point out that we are at 14 post SF in the narrative, Harry came to Chichago 3 years pre SF and spent 2 years before that with Eb. Assuming Elaine was less than 3 months along when Justin died, then any putative child would reach 18 during Next Book. Just saying. There was more than one reason for Next Book, reintroducing Elaine and a wayward son would make a good one.

Re the binding of Harry, Elaine would have been under a geas by Aurora due to the agreement, like Fix and Lily would be later, do not confuse that with Nemesis, she worked through it in a similar fashion to Fix and Lily. Again proof Elaine not nemfected at this point.

[Mira]

We don’t know whether or not Elaine is Starborn mainly because Jim has vacillated over what the term means. However Justin used good old mortal mind control on her despite having access to the Walkers, this would suggest that if she was Starborn she was immune to their influence and required a mortal influencer instead, like Harry would, otherwise you would go straight to the walker.

  I think there is evidence that Elaine wasn't enthralled by Justin.  It does get confusing because the memories Harry has of it change from the first accounts of it to the memory he has assisted by Lea in Ghost Story.  We also know from that last account that everything surrounding both Harry and Elaine are a lot more complicated than first appeared. Which goes back to Margaret's choice of father for Harry, that is the monkey wrench that was tossed in the works.

Re the binding of Harry, Elaine would have been under a geas by Aurora due to the agreement, like Fix and Lily would be later, do not confuse that with Nemesis, she worked through it in a similar fashion to Fix and Lily. Again proof Elaine not nemfected at this point.

I don't think so.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Why give Harry a way out? If Aurora and Elaine are both nemfected?

And if Aurura died where did her Nemfection go? Not Lily, Fix? Toot? Aurora died by Harry’s hand he was holding her while she died. Maeve was killed by suicide and her infection passed on. Is that the difference? Harry in killing the host kills the Nemfection?

[vincentric]

Why give Harry a way out? If Aurora and Elaine are both nemfected?

And if Aurura died where did her Nemfection go? Not Lily, Fix? Toot? Aurora died by Harry’s hand he was holding her while she died. Maeve was killed by suicide and her infection passed on. Is that the difference? Harry in killing the host kills the Nemfection?

Maeve died by Murphy putting a bullet through her face on Halloween. And her Nemfection didn't pass on. Justine was already controlled at the time according to Nemesis' own words.

“How long?” I asked. “How long have you been in Justine?”
Justine waved the steel bar in a vague gesture. “Mortal time is such a limited concept. A few years. Ever since she became close to Lara.”

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files Book 17) (p. 360). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Jim literally used the trope “suicide by cop”, he does love to blatantly use writing tropes and rub the readers face in it. He’s even admitted to this with Bob being nothing more than a talking head. I think it gives him pleasure to torture his more literary readers in this manner. Make them read hoary old tropes and enjoy it. This is why it was Murphy who did the deed, and why it was suicide. Harry or Mab goaded into killing Maeve wouldn’t have set off Jim maniacally laughing.

We have Nemesis word for the time of Nemfection, but as I pointed out earlier on this thread with Elaine “we should not trust anything she says about her past history” and this is one of the two main antagonists of the files, in addition there wasn’t an appropriate vector at that time. No Athame, no Nemfected in proximity, so either Nemesis is trying to mislead or there is a nemfected vector we are not aware about and Nemesis is concealing it.

Justine was sequestered by the White Court and had very little contact with the outside. One of the White Court? Madrigal, Madeleine? I would suggest Madeleine infected Justine during Turn Coat during the Club Zero episode in front of Harry and Thomas, later than Nemesis suggested meaning Justine was only nemfected for 4 years. Madeleine was the equivalent of Maeve in the White Court, an already disaffected Raith family Member one step removed from the seat of power as being a cousin. A perfect candidate for Nemfection and becoming a vector and explains her suddenly turning up at Club Zero, Morgan was essential for the long term destabilisation of the White Council and Nemesis needed someone within Harry’s inner circle at this point. No need prior to that, and Madeleine was on the outs with her family at this point, her use inside the White Court was becoming limited as Justine was expanding her role. She dies in Turn Coat.

Justine was either infected around Turn Coat or in Cold Days, and likely not earlier.

[Mira]

Jim literally used the trope “suicide by cop”, he does love to blatantly use writing tropes and rub the readers face in it. He’s even admitted to this with Bob being nothing more than a talking head. I think it gives him pleasure to torture his more literary readers in this manner. Make them read hoary old tropes and enjoy it. This is why it was Murphy who did the deed, and why it was suicide. Harry or Mab goaded into killing Maeve wouldn’t have set off Jim maniacally laughing.

 I don't think it was suicide by cop.  Maeve didn't want to die, though Murphy pulled the trigger, it is my belief that it was really Mab that did it.  There is a very good hint that it was her, just before Murphy's hand miraculously is free to grab her pistol quick draw and shoot Maeve between the eyes, Mab moves her finger.. Very quiet, easily missed, but it is there, and yeah, when the chips were down I could see Mab doing it... So while Murphy was the instrument, it was Mab that played the music.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Nemesis wanted Maeve to die. She was no longer useful, and represented a loose end. Harry could have put Maeve and Nemesis down, and just released the Mantle, that much is admitted. Of course there wouldn’t be much Maeve left but Nemesis would be contained, and the Mantle back in play, the losing situation for Nemesis. It buggered up the succession and wasn’t contained.

Jim loves his hoary old tropes, goodness Mirror, Mirror is going to be entirely “Evil Twin”

[apgrey]

Ref A:  https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,54257.msg2345633.html#msg2345633
Ref B:  https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,50129.msg2289460.html#msg2289460
Ref C:  https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,53049.msg2318077.html#msg2318077

  The above are previous posts by me about Elaine Mallory.
  I think that Jim Butcher said at one point that Elaine was a potential starborn.  He did not confirm if she actually was a starborn or not.
  There is probably something very significant in Elaine Mallory's backstory, but we don't know what it is yet.  We don't   have any independent confirmation of anything she did between Justin DuMorne's death and Summer Knight.

APG