Author Topic: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon  (Read 8214 times)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2023, 08:12:59 AM »
The ability to communicate is not an Intellectus, we have seen how an Intellectus operates from the inside with Harry, you just know, rather communicate. Mab is powerful enough to communicate with her other selves, she doesn’t know what they are all doing. There is no indication in the WOJ it is other than communicate, but Jim is free to change his mind.

Intellectus are rare, that Harry has two is an anomaly as Winter Knight and Warden. However he needs both to undertake both roles. Mab does not need to coordinate with other universes so form follows function, as with the Archive, the Mothers and Uriel’s Intellectus. The Mothers Intellectus may include what their alternates are doing, if so no need for Mab.

I do suspect on the basis of this theory that the Merlin may have a limited Intellectus of all bottle caps in the Dresdenverse.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 08:19:16 AM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2023, 10:02:07 AM »
To know about, AND communicate. I don't put limits on what they can [know about each other. Based entirely on awareness, the focus on the topic or subject.
A key detail of Harry's interpreted intellectus, focus/forethought. Which.. isn't intellectus? the island has it, Harry has a mental bond through which he shares it. But as with the withdrawing of the water of the chosing of that particular path right after the ceremony. It's limited to what DR is communicating back and forth with his thoughts directly. Intellectus would be the pure unbroken strand of space time I think.
That's part of what makes me think it's her... Actually mid thought, connection to the stone table that gives Mab a form of intellectus?.Which also may explain her weird chess game insight between her and Titania🤔 though not between Mabs like a outergates connect would... I mean, wouldn't they share in their mother's intellectus as far as needed to know job stuff? Mmm, she has multiple options for reasons/ways she'd have it.
I think the crux is the definition of intellectus. I think it's a lot broader of a term used to introduce an idea to us about beings having knowledge that's contrary to omniscient. So we'd have an idea about how beings can know certain things directly regarding their domain. Which sans the Well beefing him up, DR is really just the embodiment of a particular thing, an island. But the Courts/queens show embodiments can be immaterial concepts too.(still wanna see the genus of Chicago!)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2023, 01:59:51 PM »
Mab is almost certainly aware of the Many Worlds multiverse theory and that other versions of herself exist. That does not an Intellectus make.

Besides Mab hates anyone trying to move in on her power base, she didn’t speak to her own twin sister Aurora, her fellow Queen for nearly a millennia 
and wouldn’t have spoken to her in Battle Ground except that after a thousand years she was more annoyed with Harry than Mab (it’s a gift of Harry’s) .

If she can’t get on with the being most like her in the universe, she is not going to get on with a being even more like herself from another universe. I doubt very much there is a Council of Mab’s.

If as I suspect Uriel pulls the plug on the doomed universes before they can  fall to the Outsiders, Mab having an Intellectus would throw a spanner in the works, she would register the end of other Mab’s, like Harry registering the deaths of his banner men. That would be soul destroying

Offline g33k

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2023, 03:39:41 PM »
Mab is almost certainly aware of the Many Worlds multiverse theory and that other versions of herself exist. That does not an Intellectus make.
I'm pretty sure I recently saw WoJ that Mab isn't just "aware" of the "theory," but capable of communications between alt!Mabs.  That's a hell of a lot more... but still does not an Intellectus make; there would have to be some sort of shared consciousness, while the existing WoJ could mean something as fragile & laborious as an inter-universe dit-dit-dah Morse!

... her own twin sister Aurora ...
Titania, I presume you meant.

... If she can’t get on with the being most like her in the universe, she is not going to get on with a being even more like herself from another universe ...
We don't know their histories, but I suspect a love-triangle (with mortal-Mab and mortal-Titania as two corners), with their Faerie mantling happening more-or-less at the climax of the emotional debacle.  Then the Mantles kept the flames smoldering & reconciliation incredibly hard; then The Oberon Affair re-igniting the blaze.

I think two cold-and-logical Mab's might each see the advantages of communications between them; the insurmountable barriers mean that none can gain advantage over the others, none can suffer a setback in their own universe, and the differing intel each can turn up can be shared by all.
Win-win for Mab.
As usual.
(indeed, this could help explain how Mab so-often seems to know so very much, even though we never see her consulting with a spy-network)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2023, 08:12:06 PM »
 Apparently no Oberon according to a WOJ but she had a thing for the original Merlin, but with Odin’s multiple identities anything is possible.

In some Arthurian Legend Oberon is Zwingli of the Faeries and is the son of Julius Caesar and Morgana Le Fay. There is still debate as to whether Mab is Morgana or the Lady of the Lake, I plump towards the latter (cold dark places, far too many connections with Lake Michigan) and her sister the other.

Yes Titania not Aurora, all these Faerie Queens look alike……

Offline g33k

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2023, 08:20:10 PM »
Apparently no Oberon according to a WOJ ...

Not so.
Unless Jim has retconned himself since 2012 (which possibility I cannot deny!), when he wrote in a reddit AMA session:
Quote
Oberon… well, the guy kind of wound up between Mab and Titania in one of those romantic triangle things, back around Shakespeare’s day. He didn’t make it.
-- https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2023, 10:48:13 PM »
This sounds like the original Merlin, Oberon is a more modern invention as a name, those pesky Arthurian ‘scholars’ retconned things every 50 Years or so trying to put their own stamp on the mythos just like Jim.

The Courts allow for no King, but the Merlin certainly came between the two ladies of his time.

When people think Of Oberon they go to a Midsummers Night Dream, I suspect Jim did a deeper dive.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 10:54:43 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline g33k

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2023, 05:59:09 PM »
This sounds like the original Merlin, Oberon is a more modern invention as a name, those pesky Arthurian ‘scholars’ retconned things every 50 Years or so trying to put their own stamp on the mythos just like Jim.

The Courts allow for no King, but the Merlin certainly came between the two ladies of his time.

When people think Of Oberon they go to a Midsummers Night Dream, I suspect Jim did a deeper dive.
You are theorizing here in explicit contravention of the facts, as per WoJ.
There are Faerie Kings, Winter & Summer.
But they aren't integrated into their respective Queens' courts:
Quote
Where are the Farie kings?  Do they exist?
Yes they do.  The Erlking as sort of the Hunter king, and Santa Clause, the Winter king who is not the commercial Santa Clause.  The kings are sort of the opposite of the queens in their given season.  They are independent of their Queen’s courts.  The Erlking is a summer king and he is not a particularly friendly guy, whereas Santa Clause, one of the winter kings, is kinder, the spirit of generosity in a time of bleakness.
(n.b. the repeated "Santa Clause" error; dunno if we are reading speech-to-text glitch, or Jim had just watched the movie, or what ... )

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon
« Reply #68 on: August 11, 2023, 08:12:12 PM »
We haven’t seen Oberon, but we have seen Puck a powerful Wildfae in Wild Card and Puck is as strong as Lea but listed in Midsummer Nights Dream as a vassal of Oberon.

If Oberon existed he would be in  love Quandrangle with the Merlin and The sisters. I think instead he may have been Merlin as Merlin is often cited as having been fathered by a demon, but if it was instead a powerful Wildfae this would make him a changeling and explain his extraordinary power.

By the way re-reading Wild Card I believe Harry defeated Puck using sleight of hand skills he learn’t from Malcolm rather than blind luck, Harry cheated but not using magic as Puck expected, and we know from the flashbacks in Peace Talks Malcolm was showing Harry the Magician’s skills.