In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Working on the presumption that ALL the case files are part of a significant whole (as Jim constantly is asked to recount “where did you get the idea….” ) Storm Front and Full Moon have to have serious connection to the whole.

Harry had destroyed someones previous  plans to destabilise Marcone’s operation (Storm Front) by training Victor Sells and destabilise Chicago’s FBI (Full Moon) with the HexenWulf Belts where Marcone was being used as a Bogeyman to get the FBI involved.

Why?

We learn much later in Changes that the FBI Headquarters connects via the NeverNever to the Erl Kings Realm, and the Red Court seem to know their way around the Building (that’s the Eeb’s style, they did it with Harry’s building)  At this point the reader assumes through Dead Beat the Erl King is Wildfae. We later learn he isn’t in Battle Ground and is in fact a vassal of Mab’s and indeed one of her heavy hitters.

Cowl had undertaken attacks on both Lea and Maeve through the later Athame plot in Grave Peril. This suggests that he was behind the plots in both Storm Front and Full Moon and that they are in effect the same scheme, to secure a back door to the Erl King’s realm for a sneak attack, to destroy or cripple her vassal, exactly like that which occurred through Pell’s Theatre on Arctis Tor to free Lea/Nemesis.the Red Court would be up for this, removing competing predators and this may have been Cowl’s price from the Red King in dealing with the Duchess Ariana’s attempts to get her revenge prematurely on Eb. Imagine Battle Ground with the Red Court instead of or as well as the Fomor and the Red Court sending a bomb ahead of the attack into the Erl Kings hall, as part of the destabilisation agenda, with the aid of the suborned FBI.

Of course this presumes Cowl is Nameless with knowledge of the Erl King’s realm (as a major vassal of Winter) and the FBI Headquarters (as a major defence attorney in Chicago).

[Mira]

   My take, Marcone, exposure to Harry opened up a whole new realm of power to Marcone, which
he has chased after and lusted for for the rest of the series, climax of course in him accepting a Coin of one of the Fallen which has turned him into a powerful wizard.. Stay tuned, the fallout from this will be very messy in my opinion..

We are introduced to Susan,which leads ultimately to the down fall of the Red Court and the introduction of little Maggie.

Hints of a darker power at work which at this point in time Harry is simply calling "The Black Council," so far who or what it is hasn't been really fleshed out... Your theories might apply, but
remains to be seen.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Yes, as regards Marcone, law of unintended consequences. Cowl was working towards Battle Ground from Storm Front onwards a Baron Marcone capable of injuring a Titan and leading his banner into battle was not what he was expecting, nor was the extinction of the Red Court, his original plan envisaged the Black, Red and White Court changing sides, a befuddled and scattered White Council, Demonreach under his cats paws control, the Winter Court in disarray with Lea and Maeve turncoats and the Erl King out of action following a sneak attack, and a destabilised Summer Court. Unfortunately for him Harry occurred. Only the Black Court part of the scheme went off as planned, and it was still a near thing, and Harry still thwarted that.

Harry isn’t even at the Black Council theory at this point, in retrospect he know “Someone” was behind both schemes and is aware there is an unusual amount of bad guy activity in his home town.

[g33k]

... Harry isn’t even at the Black Council theory at this point, in retrospect he know “Someone” was behind both schemes and is aware there is an unusual amount of bad guy activity in his home town.

I think that as of SF/FM, Harry just think's it's a minor coincidence, a couple of villains giving some power-ups to lower-level types for purpose(s) unknown.

I don't think it's until around volume6-ish (+/- a book or two) that Harry feels "coincidence" has been stretched too far:  there's a organization, and Chicago is getting more than its share of bad-guy attention.

[Yuillegan]

I think this is key.

A long while back, I proposed that the Red Court where initially meant to do what the Fomor ended up doing. The Fomor where not being held back because of the Red Court being powerful, as has been speculated (largely due to a misconception that the Red Court were holding back other scary supernatural nations, rather than others simply playing a longer game). The Fomor simply were waiting for the right time to attack the Sidhe, and perhaps were "aimed" at the the Fae Courts by some of those players like Cowl operating in the shadows, or rather spurred into action on the Black Council's timeline.

After all, the incredibly not coincidental timing of the Outer Gates coming under heavy assault just as the Fae are fighting an ancient enemy that might have destroyed them seems to indicate a level of planning.

The Red Court (along with the other Vampire Courts aiding them) were simply the weapon the Black Council wanted to use to end the White Council.

But it's all the same goal. Anything that weakens the defence of reality so that the Outsiders can get in.

Why the Black Council want that is another question, and there is plenty of speculation around that for another topic.

Had the Red Court succeeded in wiping out the White Council, my guess is that the Fae wouldn't have lasted much longer as without the White Council I don't see Ethniu being stopped. Once she had crippled or destroyed Winter, the Outsiders would have eventually got in. And perhaps then the others would have got a chance to rule, somehow. gg

[Mira]

Why the Black Council want that is another question, and there is plenty of speculation around that for another topic.

 I believe it is at the end of Dead Beat, Harry tells Morgan that he feels that the Red Court are merely a "cat's paw" for a bigger power. It looked for a minute like it could have been the Fomor, but they too by the end of Battleground look like another paw of the cat... My money is on Drakul being on of the cats, Mavra doesn't know it yet, but she too will turn out to be a paw.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I believe Cowl may have negotiated a Fomor /Red Court Alliance, the latter got the seas oceans and lakes the latter the land. The Red Court used a Fomor weapon against the White Council in Proven Guilty.

Basically Cowl was trying to create an Axis against the Accorded Nations for decades to completely overwhelm them during an attack at the gates. Harry dismantled large parts of those plans in the various case files, often unintentionally.

It’s a question as regards what the Black Council wanted as regards Cowl. Cowl played to each of the members Agenda’s more power within their sphere, destruction of enemies etc, but Fugitive let slip Cowl wants to be Master of the Future. I believe that the creation and purpose of the White God is at stake in the BAT and Cowl’s aim is to become the White God and asset his purpose. Lucifer has the same aim. Perhaps Drakul.

[The_Sibelis]

I've always thought the Death of the reds freed up potential mantles into play. With the number of elders matching the number of grey council perfectly. Could be though some of that power went to better mirrors. The fomor could have been empowered not in a significant way, but in an important one. With mantles specifically meant for interaction with the mortal realms. Whatever key mechanism in them allowed practically immortal vampires to effect the fate of the world for generations only subtly opposed by the greater good(as opposed to them being thrown from reality for breaking rules on Godhood). This would be whatever power suddenly has ethniu, a titan, more than capable of once again walking abroad and deciding things again. Titans shouldn't be allowed no? It even breaks your power scale on what TWG allows because ethniu is bigger than man CT.(though perhaps less than she should have been still)So how'd she do it? The combined gravitas of 13 lesser mantles perhaps?
As for the early books... I think it could be a combination of Nemesis and Odin/EK for their own reasons. Gotta remember, we're just now meeting all the players bit they've all taken their turn at the board already. I think Shadowman was probably pushed by Raith, but I also see Odin having a hand in it for various reasons. Not the least of which is the storms actually being used and how Odin effects the weather. It's entirely possible to me, the "monsters" Eb walked away from and Raith was trying to get in good with, were simply the same group at the end of BG. An Odin and Raith could have a working relationship,  with Raith having attempted to curry favor at some point.
There were not one, but two targets for Shadowman. Marcone and Harry. One target, and one potential fall guy also thrown willy nilly into the mix. With Morgan seemingly tipped off as well.(or he's selectively asleep on the job in the in-between books til the vampire war) one possible motive, is also to reveal these two elements to each other as well.
FM has a lot of throwbacks to Odin's power and descendants and centers around what we know is EK's earthly... Whatever(I forget the word, lost in a thought about how having to find a place to cross over from the earthly side requires a strong connection between the two areas and certain beings can only use connections that are close to them in ways and pondering the connectivity of mirrors to fetches🤔 anyway) so I find Odin and EK likely to be doing some amount of "testing" of their earthly counters. The death of Macfinn though, that was certainly desirable by Nemesis, though considering the cycle and what THEY know, it could've been done intentionally by our side too🤷‍♂️
All I know is the prophecy is self fulfilling, breaking the curse actually brings about the end of days I think, because that was Fearbringer captured in that curse. It's perfect earthly mirror it was intentionally trapped within through Saint Patrick's own family line. He didn't lay out a curse on someone else, he cursed himself and his family to stop the beast.(as is part of the cycle with DR and the Grace theory behind it, part of the cycle is using something of yourself to contain a great evil. Merlin's was a grace. Rashid I think actively contains the manifestations of Nyarlahotep with the light of his soul. The tall joyous man, something of pure good to contain pure evil, ect) the breaking of the curse is what herald's the end of days. And, pretty much ever since one of the BIGGEST repeating goals has been to make a "living"(in so much as it's able to continue to grow and change) manifestation of Fearbringer. First Kravos in the very next book no less, later Molly,(feel like I'm forgetting at least one)
🤔 I'm wondering if there's a pattern behind which walker is active in the books actually though identifying that would be hard. Fearbringer is pretty obvious, then there's the crazy young magical female trope that I think is probably Nemesis and 🤷‍♂️

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Which Mantles are these? Where are they mentioned in text or in WOJ, as you like to say please cite the book and page number or the WOJ.

[The_Sibelis]

Which Mantles are these? Where are they mentioned in text or in WOJ, as you like to say please cite the book and page number or the WOJ.

the ones all the ramps wore that they'd have gotten off the original, it was discussed here to the point all serious forumites adopted it as canonical. No it's not my theory. It's piggybacking off of someone else's, so if you disagree with that part, go find your elders and challenge them about it because it was about as accepted as ducks pancake universe or seracks grand unification theory. Go ahead though, completely dismantle the theory the Lord's of outer night had attentive mantles. Just go into the logic behind it and actually stop it from making perfect sense.

[Mira]

 I think people are too quick to call something a mantle, when it isn't.  Or it may be considered a mantle because "power is gained," like the "mantle of the presidency", however this type of mantle shouldn't be confused with the mantles like the Queens of Summer and Winter hold.

[The_Sibelis]

Actually..  I don't suppose you remember this argument but, mantles by definition are in the same vein of logic as mantle of authority. Mab has the mantle of the winter queen. What makes that a metaphysical mantle is open of debate of course. But when you factor in how gruff reacts to Murphy hiding behind a mortal mantle, it's possible the metaphysical impact of all such things in the DF have more weight behind them then a regular usage. The mantles in question would be to the head of the Aztec/incan religious order. It's living deity. Which with the cattle and ramps they've technically kept going even when avoiding their stronghold on earth.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Once again point to where it says this in the text or in the WOJ.

Mira is correctly going by those criteria

I believe there is a WOJ which does directly contradicts your point, that the Red Court assumed the identities of Elder Gods who disappeared and garnered some power from their worshippers in the interim. We know what happened to other Elder Gods and Powers, permanent Exile to the Never Never, a power step down or Demonreach. I suspect the latter in this case as it provides another reason for Peabody to become Warden, it would create a hold over the Red Court once the White Council had been destroyed by them, and prevent them double-crossing Cowl and the Black Council/Circle. Basically the adults would have come home to find that the kids had trashed the place. We know a Warden can selectively release an inmate from Peace Talks/Battle Ground. What a lovely piece of Blackmail, they could do the same with all other factions Cowl worked with e.g the Etruscan deities for the White Court.

Thank you Sibelus you have inadvertently provided a motive for Peabody’s actions in Turn Coat, the Warden is a check on the Red Court and others because some of the inmates have scores to settle with their successors and any conflict would be very one sided given their relative power levels, and that threat prevents a double cross against Peabody and Cowl, and they are released under the control of Peabody so the Elder Gods can’t double cross him and Cowl.

The Elder Gods are wildly more powerful than the Red King, who wasn’t even at the Immortal power level of the Erl King, my guess his power level was that of Odin (without the Kringle Mantle) and the Lords of Outer Night ranked below that (it would be consistent with Vadderung demonstration to Harry)he did not therefore inherit the Mantle of an Elder God and could not therefore transmit it to anyone else. Any Mantle or power was locked in Demonreach most likely. Cowl would have some seepage hold over Peabody.

[The_Sibelis]

Once again this is one of those meta theories that take place on others theories. Don't like it? You can either ignore it or get on its level to try to take it down. Which requires discussion. Not a, I don't believe so.
Mira's comment isn't actually directly related to that,  because it doesn't declare anything other than she thinks people are too quick to label something a mantle. Her comment stands on its own and my reply was a question. Not a declaration.
 And so ya know, as long as it's, "how to cow him, how to beat him, how to shut him down". It's not going to work. You could disprove me easily enough at times, but the focus on the W is too narrow to look that deep.🤷‍♂️ My focus isn't on being right, it's on finding the truth. It's already a different game for me.
Peabody becoming warden? Your welcome I guess but it seems that your theory relies on the idea they're in fact in DR. Since that's not proven your theory has no more leg to stand on than mine wouldn't you say?🤔(gonna need that woj too...)

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Peabody as Warden Theory is dependent upon the motive to kill LaFortier in that he was in fact an hidden absentee Warden, Peabody had been waiting for years to identify the Warden, and had him killed releasing Demonreach. This is the reason I believe why Jim in WOJ will not disclose the identity of the Warden before Harry, it gives away Peabody’s motivation.

His intention was to slip to the island when he wouldn’t be missed and undergo the ritual (he is an expert on summoning and binding due his previous work on the Erl King) but Harry beat him to the punch, something he couldn’t know until he himself was on the island tried the ritual and failed. He was one of two people to arrive on the island from the Never Never with the Winter Spiders, likely this was from a back door normally protected by Mab, and used by the Gatekeeper, so Maeve would have accompanied him. There is a link from Pell’s Theatre in Chicago to just outside Arctis Tor, so Peabody could set off after the rest of White Council and arrive at the island about the same time, and leave and get back to Edinburgh by the same route.

It’s likely this which turned Mab to the need to kill Maeve.

I do genuinely thank you for your earlier post, it led me to an insight as to why Demonreach was so important and fits with several other theories I have put forward about Cowl and the Red Court. It was a piece I was missing, but is obvious in retrospect Demonreach was to be a sword of Damocles over the Red Court, Cowl never intended to be dependent upon their good will.

The WOJ about the Red Courts origins is from a Q&A a few years ago, I would have to review several YouTube videos to identify which. It is certainly pre- Skin Game and as he had killed them all off probably after Changes. However it is consistent with parts of the text and WOJ about the Greco Romano Gods and the anticipated wrestling book in relation to what happened to the old pantheons. The WOJ was I believe in respect of this passage, and the questioner wanting more information.

“He shook his head. “What you must understand is that you face beings such as I in this battle.” I frowned. “You mean . . . gods?” “Mostly retired gods, at any rate,” Vadderung said. “Once, entire civilizations bowed to them. Now they are venerated by only a handful, the power of their blood spread out among thousands of offspring. But in the Lords of Outer Night, even the remnants of that power are more than you can face as you are.” Page 162 of Changes.

Odin at this time is a shadow of god-like self himself, and being coy about his current power level, to avoid giving information away, inadvertently about himself, we only later discover he became mortal to stay in the mortal world, suggesting the Red King is in a similar situation, no longer wielding anywhere the full power of a god. We don’t know he is also Kringle at this time (although Jim put in an Easter Egg) the Red King may have been the de powered remnant of a depopulated pantheon, accepting mortality over exile or imprisonment