Author Topic: dying curses  (Read 6033 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2023, 05:11:26 PM »
Cassius had been communing with a Fallen for Centuries, for all we know he had planned this in advance with a Fallen, in which case a Fallen Angel would equal an Angel of Death with surprise and mortal magic to sway the match, but Uriel is as powerful as Lucifer, his limitations prevent him from acting unless a Fallen is in play which Cassius did do.

Frankly Cassius didn’t think this out, he is hell bound and had he managed to have Harry shanghaied, who do you think he would have been assigned as a roommate?

An eternity of Harry cracking wise on his ass would make eternity especially long for Cassius. Uriel’s saved both Harry and Cassius.

I think the point you both are missing here is it was a piss poor curse to begin with.  Sounds terrible but in reality didn't amount to much, that was what Malcolm explained to Harry..
repeat Dead Beat page 420
Quote
"Son.  Everyone dies alone.  that's what it is.  It is a door.  It's one person wide.  When you go through it, you do it alone."His fingers squeezed me tight. "But it doesn't mean you've got to be alone before you go through that door.  And believe me, you aren't alone on the other side."
I frowned and looked up at my father's image, searching his eyes."Really?"
He smiled and drew his finger in an X on his chest. "Cross my heart."
I looked away from him.  "I did things.  I made a deal I shouldn't have made. I crossed a line."
"I know," he said. "It only means what you decide it means."

Once Malcolm took the sting out of the curse, Harry wasn't afraid of it anymore, once that happened it became a non curse.. Yeah, at the end of Changes when he was shot through the heart and falling in the water he heard in his head Cassius cursing him, "die alone.."  You can argue that he was only mostly dead when he fell into Mab's arms, but for 98% of Ghost Story Harry was convinced that he was all dead.  Did you hear him complain once about having died alone?  Did he seem to suffer from it?  The answer is, no, he did not... Conclusion, piss poor meaningless curse.  Even Murphy's death loses it's sting of you want to count that towards Harry "dying alone" because his true love died before him, heck, she is in Valhalla, one of Odin's soldiers now, so there is always the hope that he will see her again.. Or given what Malcolm said, she will be there for him when he dies someday.

Now Margaret's death curse on Lord Raith was a serious curse, the vamp cannot feed and has become an impotent figurehead... Now for someone like Lord Raith, that was a serious long term curse that has made him suffer.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2023, 05:16:08 PM by Mira »

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2023, 06:04:21 PM »
As I said Cassius hadn’t thought it through, being a piss poor wizard, but the Fallen he dealt with probably had. He likely tried to piggyback off of someone more powerful.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2023, 08:42:58 PM »
As I said Cassius hadn’t thought it through, being a piss poor wizard, but the Fallen he dealt with probably had. He likely tried to piggyback off of someone more powerful.
🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️ of course! He's dealt with hell already and is leveling his death curse anyway. Why wouldn't he sell himself to something in particular in hell since he's going there anyway? "Give my last curse lasting oomph and I offer my soul" sorta thing.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2023, 05:17:08 PM »
He’s also on the point of old age catching up with him, and it’s not Cassius Soul which a Fallen would prize, it’s Harry’s.

This makes me worry that Mirror Mirror Harry is Southward Bound and Uriel isn’t going to help him. There is only one Uriel in the Multiverse.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2023, 04:38:48 AM »
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When Harry died at the end of Changes did that count against "crowd rumbling"

I think you're the biggest guy here you should be fine

*laughter

Does that against the death curse for him that he would die alone?

No not really (yay for inconsistency) because he more or less wasn't actually dead, he was just on life support and so far gone that his spirit was floating out there somewhere, basically Mab was just maintaining the silver cord that entire time until his body, until the wizard metabolism could start healing him back up.
ah yes. A reason to dig up old works that I know reinforce what I've already said. A good jaunt tonight to exercise my knowledge in the Dresden files. 😊

Offline Ed0517

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2023, 09:15:37 AM »
I would point out that Father Forthill in Ghost Story was on the verge of being shepherded to his afterlife by an angel of death. He was not alone.

Cassius was a former Denarian, as such he should know about Angels of death. Was this Cassius intent? To try to prevent Harry from from being shepherded to his afterlife so that others may hijack his spirit to take it elsewhere, as was feared for Forthill?

As I point out Harry is extremely resistant to anything which preordains his death, but afterwards? Unfortunately for Cassius though Harry has an Archangel watching over him.

Cassius wasn’t trying to kill Harry, he was trying to damn him,

I think that Angel of Death would laugh at any human's Death Curse, except she does not seem the laughing type. She said Satan himself could not stop her from performing her duty. I think, in this role... she is stronger than Uriel. (Azrael?)

And I think it was Kumori said Cowl would not fear Harry's Death Curse, so if the gap in power is bg enough, it gets negated. Also possible Harry will get strong enough to shrug off the curse.

Offline Mira

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2023, 05:33:40 PM »
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And I think it was Kumori said Cowl would not fear Harry's Death Curse, so if the gap in power is bg enough, it gets negated. Also possible Harry will get strong enough to shrug off the curse.

 I think if she said it, I don't doubt you, I just don't remember her saying it.. But if she said it, I think it might be simply bravado on her part.  I was going to say unless Cowl isn't human, but then Lord Raith came to mind, is a vamp of the White Court considered human? Margaret's curse was very effective on him, so if one does one's homework on Cowl I think it is possible to come up with an effective death curse.  Following the same logic, I don't think anyone is so strong to neutralize a well targeted death curse.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2023, 08:29:49 AM »
I think it is a matter of targeting, Cowl is not welLestablished enough as and identity for a curse to latch. It’s like cursing David Bowie instead of David jones. It’s like Uriel and Mr Sunshine.

Worse if Cowl is Nameless then there is no proper name for the curse to bite on, Cowl is doubly protected, indicating that Kumori knows this. Suggesting if her identity is revealed she can definitely reveal Cowl’s

If it is Sarissa, she is now subject to summer Law and now can’t lie to Harry. She has avoided interaction with Harry at Pewce Talks and Battle Ground but likely can’t during Next Book.

Offline g33k

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2023, 04:22:37 PM »
I think it is a matter of targeting, Cowl is not welLestablished enough as and identity for a curse to latch. It’s like cursing David Bowie instead of David jones. It’s like Uriel and Mr Sunshine.

Worse if Cowl is Nameless then there is no proper name for the curse to bite on, Cowl is doubly protected, indicating that Kumori knows this. Suggesting if her identity is revealed she can definitely reveal Cowl’s

If it is Sarissa, she is now subject to summer Law and now can’t lie to Harry. She has avoided interaction with Harry at Pewce Talks and Battle Ground but likely can’t during Next Book.

I agree that "use names" and "nicknames" and such-like are not metaphysically potent.

Except maybe they sometimes/somehow can be.

As noted in the other thread, Uriel was actually alarmed by Harry familiarizing his name to "Uri".

Maybe it's a Starborn thing?
Maybe by naming him Cowl, Harry has actually Named the nameless son...

Which, in itself, would be enough for Cowl to hate & fear him.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2023, 07:42:53 PM »
I would need to check but I do not believe Harry has nicknamed him in The Law.

We may have that to look forward to.

What may occur is a successful sommuning by Harry using The Nameless Son, Talvi Inverno and Cowl plus some nickname fixing a single identity upon him which makes him vulnerable. What nicknames has Harry given Cowl?

Got it Harry, calls him Dark Master of the Evil Bathrobes in their very first meeting in Dead Beat when Cowl says to Harry you can call me Cowl. If Harry used all four names in a successful summoning he stands a chance of pinning the last as A True Name. of course this would be in front of everybody important.

Although Mouse does know that Ash referred to Cowl as The Master of the Future. I prefer Dark Master of the Evil Bathrobes.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2023, 07:58:04 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline g33k

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2023, 08:09:32 PM »
... Although Mouse does know that Ash referred to Cowl as The Master of the Future. I prefer Dark Master of the Evil Bathrobes.

Harry is quick to point out that wizards know things.  He says it's what they do.

My vote would be Evil Bathrobe of the Future.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: dying curses
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2023, 10:38:10 PM »
Harry is quick to point out that wizards know things.  He says it's what they do.

My vote would be Evil Bathrobe of the Future.

Would it count as a Mantle?

I think Ash used his name for Cowl as Mouse uses MyFriend for Harry