Natural Weaponry vs Supernatural Martial Arts vs other powers vs just a weapon?

[EdgeOfDreams]

I'm curious about how the balance of these two custom powers work out compared to each other and compared to Channeling or just wielding a mundane weapon.

Natural Weaponry: https://dfrpg-resources.paranetonline.com/index.php?title=Natural_Weaponry

Supernatural Martial Arts: https://dfrpg-resources.paranetonline.com/index.php?title=Supernatural_Martial_Arts

First off, a baseline of comparison: a character using Weapons or Guns to attack can roll at skill X with a Weapon rating of 2 or 3, with no Refresh invested. The Gun user has range. The Weapons skill user can parry. Etc. They could also buy Stunts for various side benefits.

By comparison, Fists is fairly weak at baseline, because it lacks a Weapon rating, though it has the small advantage that you can never be deprived of your weapon. The other big thing Fists has going for it is the Footwork stunt, so you don't need to invest as much in Athletics.

Now, what can various powers do for you?

Natural Weaponry: For 1 Refresh, you get Weapon:2 for your Fists. That basically brings you up to par with Weapons skill users. You're still behind, though, because you had to take a power and spend Refresh to get there. With 2 Refresh spent, you can upgrade to Weapon:4 OR get 3-zone range and access to spray attacks. Either option puts you a bit ahead of a baseline Weapons skill user, but still behind a Weapons or Guns user who spent 2 Refresh on relevant stunts or powers.

Supernatural Martial Arts: For 1 Refresh, you get the ability to take Mental Stress to empower your Fists attacks (or defenses) in various ways. You can get +1 to your attack roll, +2 shifts of damage, or extended range, or take more stress to apply multiple effects on the same attack. This lets you fight as well as or a bit better than Weapons or Guns users, for a limited number of rounds per fight. It also has some options that Weapons and Guns can't easily replicate, like hitting ghosts or making area attacks. A second point of Refresh gets you more techniques, increasing your versatility but not your raw power.

So, both of these seem decent on paper. Compared to Weapons or Guns users, you get some minor always-on or moderate situational advantages in exchange for a point or two of Refresh (and not being a Pure Mortal). And you can get some further optimization by combining both.

But then I compare those against what you can do with Channeling, and it all feels pointless. For 2 Refresh, you can blast at range for more damage than a Guns user, make spray and area attacks, etc. plus have all the other utility Channeling brings. I can't decide if Natural Weaponry and Supernatural Martial Arts are slightly underpowered, or if Channeling is just way too good, or what. (And yes, I'm familiar with the usual arguments about Channeling's downsides - the skill investment required, filling up your mental stress track, the risk of becoming a Lawbreaker, etc.).

The only other consideration I can think of is that Natural Weaponry and Supernatural Martial Arts can be stacked with a few other Stunts and Powers (such as Strength) to ratchet them up further. But then, you can do similar things with Weapons, or take Refinement for your Channeling to stack more Focus Item bonuses too.

I dunno. Am I missing something in my analysis? Is Fists doomed to be the less optimized option no matter what, and I should just accept that? Any thoughts or input are appreciated.

(I'm gonna cross-post this to Reddit as well.)

[Sanctaphrax]

Natural Weaponry is mostly just an expanded version of Claws and Breath Weapon, so the homebrew here doesn't change much. Really, this is a question about the balance of the base game.

And yes, if you just want to do as much damage as possible as fast as possible you can't beat Evocation. But the various spellcasting downsides you list are very real.

Overall I'd say the balance is imperfect; spellcasting is probably a bit too strong. But it's not so lopsided that a melee fighter isn't worth playing, even alongside a blaster.

One change to consider: in Fate Core, Fists and Weapons are merged into Fight. It's a noticeable buff to anyone who uses either skill; I think there's a lot to be said for importing that change to DFRPG. Natural Weaponry would of course want an upgrade once a big chunk of its baseline usefulness has been made part of the skill list.