Is the "Black Council" just ... Cowl?

[g33k]

Pulled out of another thread (I think it's worth its own discussion, and didn't want to side-track the other thread):

The Black Council is I think largely Cowl, and his allies, agents and cats paws.

I think this highly-possible.

It's at least as likely as a large "Black Council" (comprised of 5-15 wizards & other entities) all working in the shadows with nearly-perfect security.

Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

_{-- Benjamin Franklin}

Mab doesn't know... really?  The supernatural-world's master-manipulator, the one who scared most of the Spookyside into signing her Accords?

Anduriel doesn't know... really?  The Master of Shadows was caught by surprise by the info Harry dropped on him in the Shedd?

We all think there's a whole group of practitioners out there who are keeping everyone(*) ignorant of their little glee-club...?

... Really?

I think a single BigBad -- let's go with Cowl for the nonce -- is more-likely the entirety of the "senior council" of the "black council."  He'd have his fingers in a bunch of pies, and likely presents himself as an "equal partner" to everyone else who's sharing a given crust... but doesn't see it that way.  He's the baker, they're just the pies.

Papa Raith & Duchess Ariana & Margaret LeFay and "the Starbabe plan" was one such "Black Council" pie (they tried & failed to recruit Ebenezer).

I suspect there was another "Black Council" with Kemmler on it; that may have been a "Council" of two (though I suspect Blampire involvement, particularly Mavra).

There is another "Black Council," wielding Hellfire, who was involved in the assault on Arctis Tor.  Harry pinned that on Thorned Namshiel, but I am unconvinced; maybe Nammy, but maybe someone else.  Harry named Nammy to Mab (but she didn't explicitly confirm Harry as correct).

Some of the early Casefiles (Sells & Kravos getting their outsized magic; enchanting the Hexenwulf belts; etc) could have been solo op's, without needing any "Black Council" partners at all (likely just a cut-out man as a "junior partner" to deliver the goods to his dupes:  a Glau, a Madrigal, etc).

The Outsiders & Nemesis are also involved, of course.  Whether Cowl himself is Nemfected I'm unclear; Cowl may just be trying to use the Outsiders to his own ends.

Or, just maybe, Cowl himself is merely the cats-paw of an even-bigger BigBad.  In particular, Cowl dancing to Nemesis' subtle music seems not-unlikely-at-all; he doesn't have to be Nemfected to get manipulated by an undetectable supernatural agent...
 

(*) Possibly everyone but Odin?  Vadderung tells Harry something to the effect of, "It's all connected, and you are just now beginning to see the connections."  Presumably, then, Vadderung has spotted those connections and figured out their common origin...
 

[Melriken]

The name of the organization is The Circle.  It is possible that Cowl is the entirety of the leadership of the Circle, but I don't lean in that direction... I did consider it (I think in that other thread) but it doesn't really ring true.

Kumori is likely Circle.

Peabody was likely Circle.

Vittorio was likely Circle.

Bianca was likely Circle.

Any Nimfected members of the Circle don't need to communicate with each other to coordinate, so spies would only have access to conversations between Nimfected and patsies... makes the conspiracy harder to find.

Just Cowl is possible, but I doubt it.

[Melriken]

I found where I was thinking about the possibility of the Circle being only Cowl...

Cowl has his fingers in ALL the pies of the Black Council and is it's most active member (he may be it's only member and is just using the name 'The Circle' to trick people into thinking there is a large organization with power behind him).

Just for reference (and the link to that thread)

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The name of the organization is The Circle.  It is possible that Cowl is the entirety of the leadership of the Circle, but I don't lean in that direction... I did consider it (I think in that other thread) but it doesn't really ring true.

Kumori is likely Circle.

Peabody was likely Circle.

Vittorio was likely Circle.

Bianca was likely Circle.

Any Nimfected members of the Circle don't need to communicate with each other to coordinate, so spies would only have access to conversations between Nimfected and patsies... makes the conspiracy harder to find.

Just Cowl is possible, but I doubt it.

I think Cowl works on a cell system (as we have seen with the Oblivion War) with everyone reporting to a single faceless, Nameless, figure. No one is aware of anybody’s else’s schemes, except Cowl who coordinates. So there is a cell in the White Council, a cell in the White Court, the Red Court, the Fomor, Winter etc. Even Nemesis is a cell.

One point in Nameless favour in being Cowl is that his very lack of a name makes him impossible lock down, magically. That means that Mab, or Anduriel or Odin on his throne Hlidskalff (Which is probably the Monoc Securities Executive Toilet, we have had Hunin and Munin and Gungenir and Sleipnir so yep) which can look into all realms can’t find him but they can find traces of Cowl when he is Cowl which may be why he adopted that affectation, an total absence of clues can sometimes be as informative as a clue. Uriel and the Mothers know, but they are not saying, they are preparing Harry by not interfering except at key points.

Look at all the summonings and the importance of them, no one can summon Nameless.

[g33k]

The name of the organization is The Circle.

I think Cowl works on a cell system...

To the best of my memory, the only occurrence of "the circle" is explicitly between Madrigal Raith & Vittorio Malvora; Madrigal is trying to prove himself, and wants an audience with "the circle" (about which he knows nothing).

Vito later speaks (to Cowl) of Madrigal; they call him a "fool," and "ignorant" of their plans.

I think these scenes say exactly zero about the existence (or not) of any "Black Council" or "Circle," by whatever name we call it.  It only tells us about some nebulous fairy-tale spun by Vito to ensnare Madrigal.  Cowl may be the top of that chain.

I think you're correct about Cowl (and/or "the Circle" ... if there's any difference) operating in cells (specifically, though:  I think "the Circle" was the name for the Vito/Madrigal cell operating to destabilize the Whampire court).  It's the only way to achieve anything like operational security in the Dresdenverse environment.

Kumori is likely Circle.
Peabody was likely Circle.
Vittorio was likely Circle.
Bianca was likely Circle.

Kumori was Cowl's assistant or apprentice or somesuch.  I think her loyalty was to Cowl.  If there's a "Blac Council" / "Circle," her membership there was through Cowl.  She may not have survived to collapse of the Darkhallow; we've seen Cowl repeatedly since then, but never Kumori ("did Kumori survive the Darkhallow?  If so, is she still working for Cowl?" would IMHO make a decent question for someone to ask at an AMA event of Jim's).

Peabody is a bit of an enigma.  His position (as Senior-Council secretary) makes him the most-likely source of all the mysterious military leaks during the Rampire war... but whether he was Cowl's plant, or that of a larger "Circle," or sat on a "Black Council" senior Council, or was merely an independent Ramp agent... none of these AFAIK have any canonical evidence supporting or disproving any of them.

Vittorio, again, is linked to Cowl.  No sign of any larger BC/C organization.  Vito is also linked to the Outsiders.  Given the secrecy of which Nemesis is capable, it's unclear to me whether Cowl knew this, or not.  Cowl may have been anything from the summoner of Vito's possessing Outsider, to just another Outsider catspaw (Cowl may be just another Outsider target, with a Nemfected agent close at hand).

Bianca was just a tool.  She was used by her betters, forced to "prove herself," and broke in use.  But they got the Athame into Winter, and launched the Ramp / White-Council war, so she was a useful tool.  Best of all:  she broke herself, fighting Dresden, so they didn't have to dispose of her (after she proved inadequate to the task of handling a junior WC-wizard).

Each of these, I think, was a separate "operation" run by a separate "cell."  They aren't all firmly-linked to Cowl, however.

[g33k]

One point in Nameless favour in being Cowl is that his very lack of a name makes him impossible lock down, magically.
... but they can find traces of Cowl when he is Cowl which may be why he adopted that affectation ...

I don't think "Cowl" is any more of a name (in a magically-useful "True Name" sense) than "Nameless."

If "Nameless" is an anti-magical method (shades of Odysseus' "No Man" & even That Other Harry's "He Who Must Not Be Named"), it looks to me like "Cowl" doe that job just as well.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Cowl is not a true name but is a name, as much as an alias a Talvi Inverno, magically it might leave traces, as in the real world. Cowl exists in the White Council Warden Reports from Dead Beat for example (and he probably resents that) but where else? The Reds probably had records of dealing with him and some Members of the White Court. But all they had was “Cowl” and whatever fantasy he had spun them, the Circle whatever.

[Ed0517]

I don't think this is a one man deal. Cowl is most likely part of the inner circle, or POSSIBLY a high lieutenant to the Big Boss (Outsider?). But Cowl shows himself too much to be the Big Boss. Not a big Council, but 3-5?

They know who is on the other side. They will take precautions. Meetings in a totally dark room keep Anduriel in the dark (sorry). So could using sign language.

Mab has agents, but doesn't have that supernatural intel ability that Andy does, or Ivy.  Keep it small and quiet, you can hide from her.

The Arctis Tor group may have had NO Circle people, or, possibly more likely, the leader was Circle, the rest are a crew reporting to him. But even Nammy might be just a lieutenant to an Inner Circle guy.

I don't think Kumori is Circle.  She's Robin to Cowl's Batman. Batman was Justice League. Robin wasn't. She's sidekick.

Peabody is an agent. Maybe a lieutenant. He's not leadership.

Vittorio is the leader of a little crew or platoon.

Bianca is a nobody.

How long will it be before Nameless becomes like a mantle and he possibly leaves at least some traces by it? Didn't Harry summon the Erlking as such? Or did he call Hearne? or maybe you can find enough referents to Nameless to point to one nexus who you can find.  Probably as useful as "Cowl". Maybe not enough to summon or curse Nameless, but might find it useful.   

[Melriken]

Given the way Harry uses a ton of different names for mother winter… and clearly not all of them… I think 7th son and nameless and several other titles would work as names… not as well as a proper name, but I don’t think not having a proper name is that great of an advantage.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Stop with the Mantles. The nine we have seen appear to be deliberate constructs and not accidental accretions over time, and clearly differ from titles and names because they have an inherent magical structure capable of being transmitted from individuals to individual. Harry has a  name, a Title (The Warden) and a Mantle they are all different despite referring to the same person.

The Law establishes that the lack of a true name makes Nameless so slippery, there was never anything to build upon magically unlike someone given a name who adopts or is gifted with another.

In Nameless we are looking at the anti- Harry, his ultimate opponent, in the way that Harry is on his own so is Nameless except for his allies, agents and cats paws. Nemesis is his Mab, Kumori his Molly (another reason to consider Sarissa), Ash his Mouse etc. Harry is the key character in the narrative, he requires a counterweight.

[Snark Knight]

Any Nimfected members of the Circle don't need to communicate with each other to coordinate, so spies would only have access to conversations between Nimfected and patsies... makes the conspiracy harder to find.

And I'd be highly surprised if Nemesis doesn't have the same ability to shroud its immediate surroundings from being spied on by Anduriel that Mab, the Knights, Alfred etc have.

Stewing over which of his associates was "our Judas" wouldn't have been a running uncertainty for Nic if he could spy on Nemesis.

[Yuillegan]

Again, Harry literally suspects that his entire idea of a "Black Council" is wrong and it might all just be Nemesis.

That said, Cowl doesn't seem nemfected. Nemesis infected agents tend to pretend they are themselves and do weird and creepy and insane things in the shadows and only reveal themselves when caught (if they ever do).

Cowl seems to have his own plan.

I would say it's likely a bit of both. The Circle (as the Black Council might call themselves) and Nemesis (and the Outsiders) are quite possibly in league - who is in charge is more interesting to note.

As for Mab and Anduriel etc. not knowing...who says they don't know? They may just choose to keep certain information to themselves. Anduriel likely hides information from Nic after all. Mab is under no obligation to reveal everything she knows to Harry or anyone else. Remember, Vadderung knows at least some of the players. He admits as much during Harry's first meeting with him in Changes.

Beyond that, it isn't like the "Black Council" doesn't have it's own heavy-weight support. It could well be that there are powerful entities hiding much of the activities and identities of the members of the Black Council. And perhaps it's also that they are just very, very clever. Human intelligence often seems to be undervalued by supernatural beings and yet time and time again we see it triumph. Cowl definitely seems to be highly intelligent. I suspect he isn't the only one on the team.

The name of the organization is The Circle.  It is possible that Cowl is the entirety of the leadership of the Circle, but I don't lean in that direction... I did consider it (I think in that other thread) but it doesn't really ring true.

I mean, I agree that it probably is the Circle. But we don't know that as a fact. It's just a possibility. But a highly probable one at that.

I am not so sure they have leaders, myself. But yes, I doubt Cowl is the ultimate leader if they do have one. Their very own "Merlin" if you like. No, I suspect there is something worse in the shadows, as always.


Also, I am not convinced about the idea of cells. I would need to see more evidence of independent cells operating, and perhaps even working concurrently maybe even with competing aims. So far, everything that seems to be linked to the Black Council all seems to be done to further the same aims. Their doesn't seem to be an element of isolation, more a nebulous hand guiding everything along.

Given the way Harry uses a ton of different names for mother winter… and clearly not all of them… I think 7th son and nameless and several other titles would work as names… not as well as a proper name, but I don’t think not having a proper name is that great of an advantage.

You might want to re-read Storm Front. Lots of emphasis on the power of real names over nicknames and monikers. There is also an old WOJ about how if the White Council took on Mab, they would need all their wizards PLUS her True Name (so using Mab wouldn't be enough to actually control her).

That said, it isn't everything or nothing either. Harry bound Ethniu using that name. Is that her True Name? Maybe, but like Vadderung or Odin that name merely represents a facet of the whole being. So I doubt it. But perhaps it's enough when combined with other things (like Arma Christi and Demonreach etc). Maybe it's enough because they choose to bind themselves to a form, and by using a name and diminishing themselves into a single form, they leave themselves vulnerable to being controlled by a moniker. Perhaps that's why Vadderung and Drakul have held multiple identities over the years. Perhaps they see the value in being forgotten every few centuries and not allowing themselves to be at risk of being bound.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The same people popping up time after time under a different alias makes it initially difficult for their opponents to get a handle on them, obviously when it becomes apparent to their opponent who they are then they can enact countermeasures against them under their prime identity, it also protects them whilst using their alias. Who would think Beowulf could be defeated by a summoning of Odin? Or that an attack against a named individual like Beowulf would fail because that is not his true name.

Such use of an alias is limited, not a limitation Nameless suffers from, reach past his alias and there is nothing, he has lived “off the grid’ his entire life. If Nameless is indeed Cowl his intent is to reach god status, and that would put him beyond what the Outsiders intend, the destruction of humanity and creation.
The end of linear time would for example not affect him any more than other gods, angels and Outsiders, it would destroy everything else collapsing the multiverse until/perhaps a new order is established, where anyone on the god tier may influence any new creation as they see fit.

Cowl and the Outsiders therefore have no conflict they are fellow travellers and allies because Nemesis needs someone with mortal free will within creation to summon and aid in destroying the Outer Gates. By that point Cowl doesn’t intend to be human anymore so all his allies, agents and catspaws are in for a shock they will not rule under him, they will cease to exist.

[Melriken]

You might want to re-read Storm Front. Lots of emphasis on the power of real names over nicknames and monikers. There is also an old WOJ about how if the White Council took on Mab, they would need all their wizards PLUS her True Name (so using Mab wouldn't be enough to actually control her).

That said, it isn't everything or nothing either. Harry bound Ethniu using that name. Is that her True Name? Maybe, but like Vadderung or Odin that name merely represents a facet of the whole being. So I doubt it. But perhaps it's enough when combined with other things (like Arma Christi and Demonreach etc). Maybe it's enough because they choose to bind themselves to a form, and by using a name and diminishing themselves into a single form, they leave themselves vulnerable to being controlled by a moniker. Perhaps that's why Vadderung and Drakul have held multiple identities over the years. Perhaps they see the value in being forgotten every few centuries and not allowing themselves to be at risk of being bound.

A true name is strong... 7th son or the nameless one wouldn't work as well as a true name.  But when Harry summon's mother winter mother summer is worried that he knew a powerful name and mother winter clarifies herself and says no not that one... 7th son or Nameless would work as a name in the sense that the poem from DB worked to summon the Erl King... it isn't his name, but it acts as a name to summon him.  His true name would be stronger and better, but the Poem gets the job done.  Similarly 7th Son would get the job done, though it wouldn't be as good as a true name.

Also Harry gives Chauncy parts of his name, and they can be used against him, but they aren't as good as Harry's whole name, which he doesn't give...

Nameless' mother did him a favor by not giving him a name, but I don't think it is as big an advantage as some people are making it out to be.  People act like the lack of a name is the same as the lack of a Threshold when putting up wards... they can't last more than a few days without the threshold to support them (never mind that Demon Reach and the Castle both have strong wards without a threshold) and I think the lack of a name is more like a weak threshold (because you are forced to use weak names) like a bachelor's or an apartment or like Mort's office in the same building as his home (he also has the Bachelor issue)...

[The_Sibelis]

There's some possibilities for overlap of cat's paws making different actions too. Take everyone at the victory council in BG and assume each has been acting independently in their own way through their own catspaw. I add in alt and future Harry's, as well as other characters based on different takes on whom they may be..
Fool moon I find fits better as Odin and EK both poking at the hornet's nest in their own way. The belts were only black magic in mortal hands I believe. Making them wasn't itself evil. And they directly bargained for them. Hunters.. The berserker gang had old ties to Odin's kin. (Iirc he even mentioned his power being spread out in his descendants) the Loup was not only the ultimate hunter, but I think the primary catalyst for everything that has followed.. I think the original curse actually bound fear bringer to that particular form, and Harry's actions fulfilled the prophecy by bringing forth the end of days. Freeing him to try to manifest elsewhere multiple times.
The attack on arctis tor didn't fit for a long time. Not that they assaulted it, but that they left hellfire behind when they should have avoided it. It was left intentionally I think. To point mab at Marcone as the holder of Nam. He didn't do it, but he is the Judas" to Nic. Him and Marcone can't be anything less than THE Knight of the blackened denarius. This meant that Mab had to look into who had Nam to find out if they needed vengeance from her. Obviously he's still standing tho. In the moment likely the attack involved making sure they could save Molly.
Kravos I see as an attempt to manifest fear bringer.
Tho I've come to a new ironic theory for what the group Raith had originally been involved with was now... The same one Harry realized was composed of aliens at best, the ones he stands with now. They all know and want to direct the power of the starborn, especially Dresden. Harry's the weapon they all wanted to forge for themselves. Beyond that the original 'council' is simply the factions and players from there, including Wizards unknown. Who probably have their own Nemesis infection driving them.