The Archive (Mechanics)

[Melriken]

When the Archive dies the construct passes to her daughter and the construct was built with a protective instinct, the host will avoid danger and bias towards protecting herself... So, what happens if the Archive dies without offspring?

Will the construct unravel?
Will the construct pass to the eldest descendant of the prior archive (cascading back as needed)?
Will the construct pass to the nearest compatible vessel (as the mantle of the winter lady does) say a random librarian?

Can an archive adopt a daughter to create a safeguard or does it have to be a natural daughter? Can the construct pass through a male (Say an archive has a son, who grows up and has a daughter, can that granddaughter inherit if the archive has no living daughters?)

[Ed0517]

I'd expect it will go down another familial line, like a royal succession. I also would not be surprised if the Archives ONLY have daughters.

[Cthoniq]

I don't think that the bearer dying without an heir would lead to the construct's destruction. If it did, there's no way in hell the Archive would EVER be doing field work like in Death Masks, much less going into actual battle, like in Battle Ground. Though it's entirely possible Ivy already has a daughter or two. While it's uncomfortable to think about, it's entirely possible the Archive would compel its host to have a daughter as soon as biologically possible and safe.

[Ed0517]

I don't think that the bearer dying without an heir would lead to the construct's destruction. If it did, there's no way in hell the Archive would EVER be doing field work like in Death Masks, much less going into actual battle, like in Battle Ground. Though it's entirely possible Ivy already has a daughter or two. While it's uncomfortable to think about, it's entirely possible the Archive would compel its host to have a daughter as soon as biologically possible and safe.

If an Archive can have more than one child, which I think is a good plan, you will have cadet lines, so there is no rush. If I were the Archive, and got run over by a bus, and i have no daughter, it goes up to my mother, then down to my sister's line. My sister is the new Archive.  Her daughter is the Archive in waiting. Third in line is due in September. They all die, goes back to my mother's eldest sister who had 4 daughters. etc. 

[EBRIEN]

The Archive reminds me of the Bene Gesserit from Dune. I wonder if there's ritual magic that could transfer the Archive's knowledge from one to another.

[Melriken]

While it's uncomfortable to think about, it's entirely possible the Archive would compel its host to have a daughter as soon as biologically possible and safe.

if this were the case I would expect a compulsion against suicide which we know doesn’t exist.  I think any compulsion in the archive is extremely weak and easily resisted so as to not count as black magic.

[Yuillegan]

The Archive has a certain amount of precognitive ability given the amount of knowledge it has access to. I suspect Ivy has long had a plan to have a child and worked out her own highest probable moment of death, and planned to have her child before this.

That said, I suspect should the Archive be killed without an offspring, that's it. I imagine that's a tempting target for the enemies of the Archive.

Which is why the Archive has a bodyguard, and many allies invested in it's protection.

Ivy is a rare case I suspect - she inherited the Archive as a child. Most times the Archive would probably only get passed on to an adult child of the previous vessel of the Archive. Which allows the next one to grow up and have another child, likely before receiving their inheritance. So Ivy is a bit of an unusual (perhaps unique) case. But she will have planned for it. But with who is the question.

I don't think that the bearer dying without an heir would lead to the construct's destruction. If it did, there's no way in hell the Archive would EVER be doing field work like in Death Masks, much less going into actual battle, like in Battle Ground. Though it's entirely possible Ivy already has a daughter or two. While it's uncomfortable to think about, it's entirely possible the Archive would compel its host to have a daughter as soon as biologically possible and safe.

I doubt Ivy has any children yet, given she is hardly out of childhood and as far as we know has no attachments. I don't really see Jim not raising this in the books. It would be logical for there to be a compulsion, but I also suspect there is no need beyond any natural biological compulsion. Free Will and all that.

And I disagree about the Archive doing field work. Ivy certainly didn't have a child during Death Masks (I'd bet anything on that). But Ivy did have Kincaid, and is sort-of a demigod in her own personal power (the warden's files rank her around the same level as the Ladies, and Harry thinks they under rate her by a bit). I think she took a calculated risk in that scenario and wasn't too worried. Remember, Nicodemus had to get help from Lucifer (well, it was apparently more like one of his lieutenants who provided the actual power) for the Signs that helped capture her. It isn't that easy to take out the Archive.

[Melriken]

That said, I suspect should the Archive be killed without an offspring, that's it. I imagine that's a tempting target for the enemies of the Archive.

This seems the most likely to me as well... The Archive isn't a real mantel, it was created by wizards to fight oblivion.  It might be that without a child the Archive will go hosteless and could be attached to someone new through magic depending on how it was created and attached originally.

The Archive can delete from it's knowledge for the purpose of the Oblivion War... so shouldn't Ivy be able to delete her mother from the Archive's memories and make similar adjustments to lessen the burden?

[Cthoniq]

Honestly I suspect the Archive's function as the mortal-side conductor of the oblivion war was something Jim came up with after Death Masks, not something he had in mind from the beginning. He's said his initial genesis for the archive was just wanting to write a creepy little girl character. It's sort of hard to justify a being as vitally important but (mostly) mortal as the archive ever hazarding herself in field work. How do you logically go from "My job:  use intellectus to keep track of all human knowledge to watch for cthulu cults" to "My task: get involved with random supernatural disputes all over the world."

[Melriken]

Honestly I suspect the Archive's function as the mortal-side conductor of the oblivion war was something Jim came up with after Death Masks, not something he had in mind from the beginning. He's said his initial genesis for the archive was just wanting to write a creepy little girl character. It's sort of hard to justify a being as vitally important but (mostly) mortal as the archive ever hazarding herself in field work. How do you logically go from "My job:  use intellectus to keep track of all human knowledge to watch for cthulu cults" to "My task: get involved with random supernatural disputes all over the world."

Not disagreeing with you, but the most important thing for the Archive to do to enable her to fight the Oblivion War is to maintain the secrecy of the Oblivion War.  Which means pretending to have other things to do that take up all her time... ie: get involved with random supernatural disputes all over the world.

Regardless of when Jim decided to make her primary purpose fighting the Oblivion War what we saw not just the first time we see her but every time we see her is her cover and it would look the same regardless of when Jim decided it was a cover.

[OutsideIn]

Everyone have a wonderful day. Consider me gagged and silenced! Barely escaped with my life! Everyone act normal! We'll get through this together! Carry on, nothing to see here .. these are not the droids you are looking for...

[g33k]

Not disagreeing with you, but the most important thing for the Archive to do to enable her to fight the Oblivion War is to maintain the secrecy of the Oblivion War.  Which means pretending to have other things to do that take up all her time... ie: get involved with random supernatural disputes all over the world.

Regardless of when Jim decided to make her primary purpose fighting the Oblivion War what we saw not just the first time we see her but every time we see her is her cover and it would look the same regardless of when Jim decided it was a cover.

Also, there's the whole issue of the Unseelie Accords.  The Archive (in her overt personna) has no obvious reason not to sign on to the Accords, so being non-signatory would likely attract attention & curiosity (which is exactly what the Archive (as the apex of the Oblivion War) wants to avoid).

So she needs to fulfill all the obligations that any UA-signatory must ...