Author Topic: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”  (Read 11037 times)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2023, 11:05:18 AM »

One major problem I have with Nameless being very important is he has only appeared in a novella, not in one of the case files.  Many readers of the series will never read The Law or any of the short stories.  I want to see Nameless play an important role in one of the novels before I'll consider that he may be a major player.

Point on the description, it’s Jim using the same thing over and over again lazy writing.

Firstly this is the only standalone Novella, it was published because it needs to be published before Next Book, which means Nameless HAS to be introduced at this point in the narrative and gives two important pieces of information that Nameless worked with Kemmler and that Nameless was kicked out of Arctis Tor right after the attack, reading back both are significant as regards Cowl’s known movements and works.

For example Torelli starts planning his move on Marcone a couple of weeks before Small Favour, the point presumably when Nameless was retained by Marcone, as Nameless brings discord wherever he goes even in the most organised of organised crime organisations. We also get Beckett previously associated with The Shadowman, a Cowl catspaw betraying Marcone as well.

Secondly, since when has Jim been fair to his readers? One of his favourite tricks is to imbed information or foreshadowing in an innocuous passage of one book to pick it up much later. We know from a WOJ we have seen Cowl in his actual persona before which means Jim has done exactly this, but in a context we weren’t aware of. Given Nameless associations if he his Cowl that means in Court, in the Winter Court, or around Marcone.

Murphy page 164 Small Favor ‘The law is there to protect everyone. It’s supposed to apply equally to everyone.’ I sighed and paid attention to the road. I’d drive for a few minutes to be sure we were in the clear, and then circle back to Michael’s place. ‘That’s wishful thinking, Murph, and you know it. Pretty sure Marcone’s lawyers love that attitude.’ That would include Nameless at that point

‘The law isn’t perfect,’ she replied quietly. ‘But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to make it work.’ Murphy page 165. Oh how Jim must be laughing

‘‘I believe you’ve been told before that Nicodemus makes it a point to destroy any records the Church manages to build concerning him. That’s not going to be as easy to arrange in the future—’ ‘Hail the information age,’ I interjected.” Michael telling Harry exactly Nick’s motive for snatching Marcone  page 170.



« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 11:37:12 AM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline vincentric

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2023, 01:24:58 PM »
The WoJ that we have seen Cowl in his true persona predates "The Law" by years. So, which non-Cowl character that has appeared before was he since Nameless as himself has never appeared before "The Law"?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2023, 01:34:02 PM »
We have seen Nameless, it’s just that he has remained nameless, I think he was one of the unnamed dancers in Maeves Court in Summer Knight. He would have attached to her Court at that time, Maeve refers to someone male telling her about Harry, before shutting up almost immediately.

Cowl’s the arsonist who is always in the crowd watching the burning building. We will have seen him in crowd scenes.

The Hobbs, why? They are clearly Winter, clearly after stopping Harry. Harry has fulfilled his purpose in this scheme by summoning The Archive for the Denarians to later scoop up. Mab wouldn’t send them, she wants Harry to succeed, but perhaps another heavy hitter in Winter would? Maeve? On Nameless urging? Maeve would consider exiling Nameless of more of Mab’s strange behaviour.

“ obviously whoever was behind it wasn’t in complete control.’ Page 207 Harry doesn’t think it is Mab.

He then thinks that the Archive was the target, but that is probably coincidence, Hobs are ambush predators, they were drawn off Harry to the children. Attacking The Archive wouldn’t make sense to anyone at this point .
« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 04:26:09 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline g33k

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2023, 02:15:34 AM »
...  We have no idea what Cowl looks like.
I might wonder if a shapeshifting magic (or item) might not be a wizard's best disguise.  A hood -- a cowl -- is always subject to blown wind, bright low lights illuminating your artful shadows, etc.

Add the cowl, as if it were the disguise you were relying upon.

But actually, you're 6 inches taller & 150lbs heavier, with curly blonde-going-silver hair & no beard, instead of the wiry-build brunette with just a slight hint of grey.  Gender-bend for an extra misdirect.

So when you say, "We have no idea what Cowl looks like," I agree emphatically with you!  I expect wizards trying to conceal their ID's use these means, and more...

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2023, 01:15:02 PM »
‘Cross into the Nevernever from where you’re standing?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘You’d be better off asking the Russian to put a bullet through your head for you. I know what lives on the other side.’
Small Favor p363

I posit Mab and her prison Ice Garden at Arctis Tor, the Gatekeeper can use that entrance as could Maeve.


‘Why?’ I asked him. ‘Why would Summer want Marcone taken by the Denarians? Why would Summer want the Archive under their control?’ The gruff only stared at me for a long moment, but when he spoke I could have sworn that his voice sounded pensive. Maybe even troubled. ‘It is not my place to know such things - or to ask.’ Page 374 definitely trouble in paradise, Lily is being lied to by Maeve (on the advice of Nameless)who passed it onto Titania. She gave me a faint smile. ‘


‘It’s just . . . the center cannot hold, Harry. I think things are starting to fall apart. I can’t see it, and I can’t prove it, but I know it.’ Page 411 quote from WB Yeats the Second Coming.I have theorised that in the Dresdenverse we are approaching the singularity in Harry’s lifetime where our technology assumes godlike power after becoming self aware. Want another name for it? Spiritus Mundi in Second Coming the interconnectedness of all humans. Our numbers and technology have the potential to create the White God, and the Archive is likely a component of that, being the sum of all recorded knowledge. What if Harry is able to separate Ivy from the Archive and create God.

If Harry is responsible for creating God, he will be insufferable

“I don’t know who they are,” I said. “But they’ve been involved in several things lately. The Darkhallow, Arctis Tor, the White Court coup.” Page  107 to Molly and Morgan. Harry links all three but Cowl was only ostensibly involved in two, but Mab suspects Nameless was involved in Arctis Tor in The Law. Two Masters of the Future? I think not.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 05:32:28 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”ur
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2023, 10:37:35 AM »
Page 251 Turn Coat “I shook my head. “Just a fact. One day I’m going to take you down.””

Why couldn’t Jim use ‘out’ instead of ‘down’ it would have been a lovely bit of foreshadowing, and allowed for a nice snarky call back in Next Book on Harry’s and Lara’s first date. Lara “just after the Skinwalker attack I offered you a partnership and you said “Just a fact. One day I’m going to take you out.” “You know you were right after all”

I hate a missed oppuntunity.

Jim didn’t miss this one “She was reading a paperback, carefully not opening the thing all the way to avoid creasing the spine. Pansy.’” Page 271 Turn Coat Harry about Molly reading a book. Librarian Karma was always going to catch up with Harry, this is just one of many references to Harry breaking the spine of books, so in the book Changes it’s Harry’s spine which gets broken.

“tried it from the Nevernever side, too. It was failed spell number three.” Page 284 Turn Coat This were spells next to the copper summoning circle in Harry’s lab, Leas Murder Garden did not exist at this time, so in Changes Harry didn’t blithely Gateway into it, and suggests Lea is still on ice at this point.

“My solicitor will swallow you whole and spit out the bones.” Binder page 289 Turn Coat. We don’t actually get to see Binders lawyer, he should be there why isn’t he? Is it because he is keeping a low profile from Harry?and doing other things?

“The Wardens have found him,” Binder complained. “Dresden’s a bloody Warden. Your boss should have paid up already.” There was a quiet, deadly silence, and then Madeline purred, “You’ve been modestly helpful to him in the past, Binder. But don’t start thinking that you would survive telling him what he should or should not do. The moment you become more annoying than useful, you are a dead man.” Pages- 304 Turn Coat.

Madeleines twin Madrigal worked for Cowl, so it would appear is Madeleine, Madeleine has contracted Binder, now Binder has worked for Cowl in the past so who made the introduction? Is Binders lawyer not present because when Binder is arrested because he might be identified and is otherwise busy working with Peabody? Binder is exactly the sort of thug Nameless would employ in his practice in return for legal services.

“Yet given recent history, the actions of a known enemy seem a far more likely source for LaFortier’s murder than those of some nameless, faceless third party.” Ancient Mai page 401Turn Coat.

Would Jim actually name Cowl‘s real identity in such a manner thumbing his nose at his readers, why yes he would, laughing manically.

“All I know,” he said, “is that it was some bloke with a lot of money. I never talked to him. When she was on the phone with him, they spoke English. He wasn’t a native speaker. Sounded like he’d learned it from a Continental.” Binder about who hired him p426 Turn Coat. Samuel Peabody is a native English speaker, Harry twits him earlier on about the translation from German, Binder is British and would know the difference, Nameless is Finnish in origin, and goes by Talvi Inverno so people would expect him not to be a native English Speaker. Did Cowl learn English from Kemmler? They could have been working together for centuries.

That eliminates a lot of Cowl candidates


« Last Edit: March 11, 2023, 08:07:06 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #51 on: March 12, 2023, 08:37:54 PM »
Changes now “And after that, the Council as a whole believed that there might be a faceless, nameless organization running amok in the world—“ page 142.

The Bloodline Curse is actually the spell Victor Sells used in Storm Front taught to him by Cowl. Was Cowl behind its bigger brother? Did Peabody give Cowl the link between Eb and Harry?

‘Vadderung laughed again. He had a hearty laugh, like Santa Claus must have had when he was young and playing football.” Page 164 Changes

Is Rudolph Cowl’s man? The Eeb’s are working for the King, but Cowl has been working with the Red Court, but if he is Nameless then his very presence at the Red Kings Court could be responsible for the discord between Arianna and the King.

“This was the second time she’d come very close to being fed upon by a vampire, though admittedly the first had been in a vicarious fashion.’ Page 209 third times the charm Molly is now immortal.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 01:23:41 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2023, 01:47:09 PM »
On Ghost Story now

Zero/Aristide’s/Baldy is a middle level Sorceror, Cowl previously had three different Sorcerors working for him in Chicago, The Shadowman, The Nightmare, the puppies abductor, so presumably Zero is as well. This puts the attack on Murphy’s house in context, likely Cowl provided the assault weapons. As Nameless he would be concerned with Leas involvement in the Ragged Lady pose, and this was intended to disrupt this.

Lea is more powerful than Nameless, she probably could if she chose penetrate his disguise so it limited the help he could give the Fomor in Chicago.

Offline g33k

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”ur
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2023, 03:47:13 AM »
“tried it from the Nevernever side, too. It was failed spell number three.” Page 284 Turn Coat This were spells next to the copper summoning circle in Harry’s lab, Leas Murder Garden did not exist at this time, so in Changes Harry didn’t blithely Gateway into it, and suggests Lea is still on ice at this point. 
Not necessarily.  I think Lea has a LOT of fine-grained control over the "murder garden."  She could easily have remodeled it; she may routinely remodel it, so it's never the same on successive visits (frustrating both attempts to "scout" and attempts to "retreat, and come back better-prepared").  Remember too, the "Murder Garden" didn't instantly trigger when Harry brought Bob over.  If Harry only stepped through for a moment, cast his (rather quick) Tracking Spell, and then stepped back, the Garden may not have reacted.  Or, Harry may only have opened a gateway, but didn't even enter the Nevernever.  He may have seen nothing more than a slice of tree-line, or something insufficient to spot the "garden path" nature of the domain Lea had crafted there.  Last but not least, he may have just been too worried about Molly, and -- not actually wanting to make his way down the Garden Path -- not registered the details in any way that mattered when he came back later.

Last but not least... it may be YACE...
Yet Another Continuity Error.

(does anyone know if the Beta Readers maintain a database of those, for Jim to occasionally go through and see if he can retcon the discrepancies?
Or would that be too anal-retentive... yah, probably...
)

“My solicitor will swallow you whole and spit out the bones.” Binder page 289 Turn Coat. We don’t actually get to see Binders lawyer, he should be there why isn’t he? Is it because he is keeping a low profile from Harry?and doing other things?
Lawyer may be en route; that may have been bluster on Binder's part; they threaten him with legal consequences, he points out the legal weaknesses.  Even 1st-trial-ever Public Defender could use the weaknesses in their legal case!

Besides, the cop-questioning-before-lawyer-arrives is a major trope in crime fiction (which Dresden Files is!).

“Yet given recent history, the actions of a known enemy seem a far more likely source for LaFortier’s murder than those of some nameless, faceless third party.” Ancient Mai page 401Turn Coat.

Would Jim actually name Cowl‘s real identity in such a manner thumbing his nose at his readers, why yes he would, laughing manically.
... “And after that, the Council as a whole believed that there might be a faceless, nameless organization running amok in the world—“ page 142.

I think that's just Jim repeating a similar phrase, in the same context.


 
One major problem I have with Nameless being very important is he has only appeared in a novella, not in one of the case files.  Many readers of the series will never read The Law or any of the short stories.  I want to see Nameless play an important role in one of the novels before I'll consider that he may be a major player. 
Largely agree with this, though I'd emphasize things slightly differently:
As noted, many DF readers don't keep up with the "minor" works.  Most of the DF readers I know (in my f2f/offline life) haven't read any of the graphic novels, and with the short collections readership is about 50/50; maybe I am an outier datum, though.  I presume Jim has the sales data to hand.

But The Law is not just "a short" -- it's a short with a sharply limited (Kindle/Audible only) distribution.

I don't think Jim is going to put important clues & plot-development into such a limited-readership story.
 

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2023, 04:43:10 AM »
And having Cowl appear in a short story isn’t?

I do wonder whether Next Book is actually going to be a Fix Up Novel of the post Battle Ground stories alternating Harry’s viewpoint with that of another character as occurred in Zoo Day. We have POV stories from Toot, Mouse and Molly, and two from Harry, in that period with the narrative only reaching as far as Christmas, 6 months into the year.

Little Things 19 Pages
The Law 98 pages
Fugitive 26 pages
Christmas Eve 16 pages
The Good People ???

Basically a third of a modern novel.

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2023, 02:07:09 AM »
On Ghost Story the Big Hoods were established 3-4 years beforehand, approximately around the time Nameless came to work for Marcone and several years after Corpsetaker died so given their sartorial choices it is likely they are imitating Cowl/Nameless.

In the memory reference is made to the Sinistar arcade video game released in 1983. Harry is sixteen at this point so unless the game had been hanging around for several years a birth year for Harry of 1967 is in the frame. Harry then references Jack Burton, the protagonist of Big Trouble in Little China which makes a birth year of 1986 given its release date.

“The unseen presence of the creature came closer. Its voice lowered to a bare, pleased murmur. “Child of the stars. I will destroy you this night.”’ Page 284

This would have been the earliest reference to Harry being Starborn in his time-line.

“But why risk it in the first place? Why Chicago?” Because Cowl is in Chicago? With knowledge of the Darkhallow? I swallowed and pushed a hand back through my hair.

“The Fomor’s servitors. Corpsetaker and her gang. Even Aristedes and his little crew. They’re pieces on the board.” Harry to Bob page 306 they all work for Cowl, knowingly or unknowingly.

During Ghost Story Marcone is in Italy and Child’s is in charge.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 02:48:55 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2023, 08:56:26 PM »
Cold days now Harry discussing Laws with Sarissa page 22

“Only two? Man, how do Unseelie lawyers make a living?” Sarissa doesn’t respond.

They go to work for Marcone.

Sarissa works for Mab three months in the year, normally during her college break. The means she wouldn’t have been in the mortal world during White Night, but would have been during both Grave Peril and Dead Beat. By the time of Cowls latest appearance Sarissa is the Summer Lady.

Nameless of course was banned from Harry’s birthday party….

“There are people I sometimes do things with,” she said. “I don’t … I’m not sure I’d call them friends. I don’t want to make friends. I have the attention of some dangerous beings. If I got close to anyone, I could be putting them in danger. Don’t you ever worry about that?” Sarissa p 70

Ace is alerted and equipped almost immediately to Harry when Faerie is locked down. I previously theorised that Ace and the other Winter Changelings were manipulated by Cowl/Nameless in Summer Knight, Lloyd slate used to terrorise them to push Ace towards Maeve and Nameless for protection. Aces father is the Redcap and at the point a presumed loyal member of Maeves Court, so Mab would know about this.Nameless would have been in Chicago when the lockdown occurred, due to his banishment, still able to act. Mab would have known this. Another attempt to draw him out as working with Maeve?

Kemmler had Bob for 70 years and we know he was a former Warden of Demonreach. He was rogue from the 1880’s,  at least due to a Fistful of Warlocks , did Kemmler acquire Bob to interpret Demonreach?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 08:19:31 AM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2023, 08:38:46 AM »
A quick aside, thinking about Kemmler got me thinking about the one time we see him, in a Fistful of warlocks

“To avoid this outcome, you will release our companion unharmed. We will depart Dodge City immediately. You and the Warden will remain within the marshal’s office until dawn. As an additional incentive, we will arrange for the new ordinances against your friend Mr. Short’s establishment to be struck from the city’s legal code.”

They appear to have a lawyer with them? Nameless was he one of the four poker players? The Mayor? it would explain why Harry hadn’t seen him bur Jim says we had seen Cowl before if the latter. Someone probably helped Kemmler escape,  the Mayor appears to be an accomplice in creating a safe haven in Dodge City

Cold Days p201 “Of course, that was a rabbit hole I didn’t want to start down—experience has taught me that you do not win against supernatural entities at lawyering. It just doesn’t happen.”

And yet this is exactly what he did in The Law, presumably foreshadowing Nameless

and freakish things that had no names.”p416 no stutter so not the Naagloshii

“Well-done, starborn!” P420 the Erl King Knows.

“slay a starborn,” p478 Maeve knows

“And the vampire’s crumpet. Luscious little thing, aren’t you? And so close to Lady Raith. You and I are going to have a long talk after this, darling. I just know you’re going to start to see things my way.”Maeve about Justine p484

« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 07:02:08 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2023, 06:35:25 PM »
Skin Game.

Harvey’s info was held by the Fomor, Cowls allies. Were they going to hit Hades Vault themselves?

Offline g33k

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Re: “You Know What He Was Meant To Be”
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2023, 11:17:08 PM »
In the memory reference is made to the Sinistar arcade video game released in 1983. Harry is sixteen at this point so unless the game had been hanging around for several years a birth year for Harry of 1967 is in the frame. Harry then references Jack Burton, the protagonist of Big Trouble in Little China which makes a birth year of 1986 given its release date. 

I quote Priscellie, from the "Timeline" document she assembled:
Quote
It's impossible to pin down exactly what year Harry was born due to continuity errors.
-- https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,1592.0.html

I'm pretty convinced about the early/mid 1970s as Harry's birtdate.

I'm pretty convinced that Jim was just sloppy here; he wrote the details he wanted without regard for what was actually factual.