How was “the Well” on Demonreach filled with inmates?

[SerScot]

We saw how difficult it was to get Ethniu into the Well.  We saw how difficult it was for Harry to fight Shagnasty… how did the inmates on Demonreach get there?  Who put them there?  When did they get there?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I would create a Little Demonreach, which could slot in the back of the Munstermobile and use that to summon Alfred to take custody of the miscreant anywhere.

[vincentric]

We saw how difficult it was to get Ethniu into the Well.  We saw how difficult it was for Harry to fight Shagnasty… how did the inmates on Demonreach get there?  Who put them there?  When did they get there?

I suspect we'll never know unless Jim decides to do "History of the Wardens and White Council" series. Demonreach is an interesting story element but one that raises more questions than answers.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I suspect we will get a POV story from the British Prisoner one day.

[Ed0517]

i think Harry is likely less experienced and less skilled than most who have had the job before. Some of the heavies in there were likely taken down by a group of Wardens or the blackstaff. They send a posse.

I doubt a traveling version would be easy to build. Gotta run a lot of mojo thru it to summon Alfred... might slag stuff.

[g33k]

... We saw how difficult it was for Harry to fight Shagnasty…

Harry hadn't really powered up, at that time.
If he had been The Warden, ol' Shaggy would be snoozing down in a pretty crystal.

[g33k]

… how did the inmates on Demonreach get there?  Who put them there?  When did they get there?

I am betting that OG Merlin himself was responsible for a fair number of the inmates.
Then a few more per Warden, over the centuries... Occasional flurries, where LOTS of inmates get added; occasional lulls, where none do.

[g33k]

... Some of the heavies in there were likely taken down by a group of Wardens or the blackstaff ...

I have a WAG that "the wardens of the White Council" is a misnomer.

"The wardens" are supposed to be adjuncts to the Warden (of Demonreach).

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The White God appears to have used their power to give an ultimatum to the lesser powers, stay out of the mortal world if your power can break reality. Some powered down like Odin to stay, some retreated to the NeverNever like Hades and the Mothers, and those that did not found themselves fair game for Demonreach. Some like Mr Ferro skirted this by only extruding part of themselves into the mortal world.

The current set up of Winter and Summer is that Winter are the CIA and Summer the FBI I presume that Summers earlier task aside from watching Winter was to deal with the likes of Ethnui, it is therefore no surprise really Summer turned up to Battle Ethnui despite the falling out of the sisters in 1066, this may have been the first major threat to reality  from inside since that date. This leaves a period of 400 AD (when the Merlin became active) to 1000 AD (ignoring the time travelling) that probably saw an intake of new prisoners mostly likely from the New World (those Inca and Mayan gods whose servants then styled themselves Lords of the Outer Night) the Naagloshii etc. this may explain why The Merlin established Demonreach in North America, keep it out of the Old World whilst cleaning it up.

The Old World clean up probably took place earlier before the Winter/Summer split when the Greco Roman Gods were defenders of the Gates and the Faerie Mantles  created .They would have used Demonreach established by the timetravelling Merlin as providing a solution they didn’t realise they needed. I guess some entities were given the option of incarceration or on Halloween be forced to siphon their power off to others/mantles.

There may have been an earlier wave of incarcerations, but no record exists outside of Demonreach  due to the Oblivion War.

[seanham]

The last time this question was posed, I suggested and still wonder if Demonreach can move his essence along the ley line. So you could be halfway across the world and still sent a baddy to Demonreach. We saw in BG that you don't need to be on the island itself to be snared, so there must be at least some way the Demonreach is able to extend himself beyond the island.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Since then we have had Battle Ground, and Demonreach can extend as far as the lakeshore. Remember it’s a genius loci a spirit of the place so it is likely to be geographically anchored. Besides Alfred’s limp comes from the Glacier which carved out Lake Michigan according to Jim/Harry, but according to science it was created 1.2 Billion years ago by the fissure of two tectonic plates (we are looking at you Mr Ferro, and explains his limited engagement in BG, he would literally rip Lake Michigan a new one and possibly open up Demonreach, by moving the ley line, the  plot of the Dragon Book perhaps? Demonreach is the ultimate Dungeon and Ferrovax the ultimate Dragon, so is that book going to be the ultimate Dungeons and Dragons adventure? Ferro was introduced in GP and repeated attacks on Demonreach are a thing Turn Coat(replacement warden theory for the murder), Cold Days (outright attack) even Battle Ground (infiltration) so after Next Book and Mirror Mirror we are about due for another attack on Demonreach plot, someone luring or forcing Ferro fully out of the NeverNever into Chicago to disrupt the tectonic plates and the ley lines) it was filled with water by retreating glaciers about 15,000 years ago which may have led to the creation of the island as we know it today and before human habitation of North America and probably led to the creation of the Genius Loci we know as Alfred.

[Ed0517]

I dunno about that - if you force Ferro out, that breaks a TWG Rule, and that might not be Harry addressing, but angels. And not necessarily Uriel, because this won't have to be subtle

[SerScot]

@Conspiracy Theorist,

but according to science it was created 1.2 Billion years ago by the fissure of two tectonic plates

You are incorrect.  Lake Superior was created by tectonic rifting, that’s why it is the only really deep great lake.  Michigan/Huron are Glacial remnants.

https://www.lakesuperior.com/the-lake/natural-world/243-lake-superior-basin-fiery-beginning/

[seanham]

Besides Alfred’s limp comes from the Glacier which carved out Lake Michigan according to Jim/Harry, but according to science it was created 1.2 Billion years ago by the fissure of two tectonic plates

Where was this said? What WOJ or book talked about glaciers creating the limp? I don't know every WOJ but this is the first I'm hearing of this one and would enjoy hearing more about it.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I believe Jim said he had a grudge and implied the limp was from that, but Jim doesn’t always tell the truth even on small matters if it is going to impact upon a major plot.

Hmmm I suspect each of the Great Lakes supporters tell a similar story:-

https://www.livescience.com/32011-lake-michigan.html

Wikipedia is surprising silent on this, suggesting the fact is hotly contested amongst rock nerds of the universities bordering the Great Lakes , and they got fed up with the pages constantly being changed.

Jim has characters who were there though, so he can say what he wants and pick the theory he wants until someone invents timetravel and disproves him.

If Ferro is being lured out into the mortal world then in Skin Game the Ferro vault in Marcone’s bank might be an Easter Egg for this, if Hades vault in the Bank leads to Hades Vault in the Never Never, then it stands to reason the same applies to Ferro’s Vault leading to his Hoard in the Never Never. What if the gift to Ferro in Grave Peril presented by Cowl is the lure and the access through the vault the way to bring Ferro fully out?

I have posited Cowl is Nameless, and Nameless is Marcone’s top lawyer, and was part of Winter Until Mab shut him out after the attack on Arctis Tor.  He might have been planning this all along from GP. We saw the problems the gift to Lea created for Winter, and Cowl’s boast in Dead Beat when Harry connects him to GP. Mab merely saw the opportunity to put Nicky in his place and to retrieve the artifacts, and inadvertently came to the same plan as cowl/nameless but for a different subject. That would connect it into the wider narrative that Cowl/The Black Council have been involved in all of Harry’s major cases to some degree, SG bothered me because there didn’t appear to be a link, The Law and forthcoming Dragon book mat provide that link. Would Marcone’s top lawyer have access to his bank? and through them the vaults? I think so. If Cowl is Nameless it suggests that Nameless has a reason to continue to work for Marcone, why bother otherwise?

The Law exists to create a nexus between Winter and Marcone and Nameless and Kemmler (who Cowl and Nameless both worked with, not for) it is likely that is far more significant than is realised and why a ‘surprise’ Novella was required. It contains points relevant to the wider plot.

We only see Ferro in GP and PT/BG we get the mention in SG, are there any other references? Could Demonreach contain a fully emerged Ferro?