Author Topic: What is a “Destroyer”?  (Read 3625 times)

Offline vincentric

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Re: What is a “Destroyer”?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2022, 04:15:10 PM »
You're giving Harry too much contemplation time relevant to his actions. The whole of Changes takes place in three days. The time from being crippled and becoming Winter Knight happens in three hours tops. It was a move of desperation that Harry could have avoided with less stress and time pressure.

Offline Mira

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Re: What is a “Destroyer”?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2022, 05:16:43 PM »
You're giving Harry too much contemplation time relevant to his actions. The whole of Changes takes place in three days. The time from being crippled and becoming Winter Knight happens in three hours tops. It was a move of desperation that Harry could have avoided with less stress and time pressure.

 He wasn't planning to break his back, and until that point, though few, he still had options or thought he did.  Once he broke his back, he had no good options, being Winter Knight was the least bad.  He is stressed up until the time he broke his back, but it didn't include becoming Winter Knight  or at least not seriously.  So if three days before the fire happened, he had calmly decided to become Winter Knight, and then planned carefully out how he could manipulate Molly, then yeah, he could have saved himself some stress and guilt, but that isn't what happened.
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That doesn't mean he was entitled to ask Molly, either.
Of course not, nor is a dying husband entitled to ask his wife to end his pain by assisting his suicide. But it happens, and very often the wife consents to assist.  These types of things are not thought out usually before hand, and when it is done it isn't a decision based on morality.  There are moral arguments to be made on both sides of the question.  Uriel understood that, he also knew that Harry wasn't exactly himself when he asked Molly.  Had it been a cold calculated manipulation plan on the part of Harry, I doubt that Uriel would have stepped in at all.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: What is a “Destroyer”?
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2022, 09:59:01 PM »
As a character this has been ongoing since Proven Guilty. At one point in time Butcher has Murphy tell Harry the he would be better off learning how not to get in these messes rather than struggling with getting out of them.  So the press of time is an excuse not a reason.

Offline SerScot

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Re: What is a “Destroyer”?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2022, 12:19:37 AM »

  In that first quote from Turn Coat, if I remember correctly Molly had been trying to justify what she had done to Morgan, and that is how Harry answered her.  Because there was no justification for what she had done except she thought it was the right thing, she hadn't learned anything from what happened to her friends after she went into their minds.

As to the other, Harry had no one else to ask.

It was still wrong and Harry should have known it… even if pushed.
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Mira

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Re: What is a “Destroyer”?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2022, 04:24:39 AM »
It was still wrong and Harry should have known it… even if pushed.

That was the point he was trying to make with her, she was wrong.. He made a big deal out of it too, because what Molly had just attempted could have cost him his head as well as hers.
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As a character this has been ongoing since Proven Guilty. At one point in time Butcher has Murphy tell Harry the he would be better off learning how not to get in these messes rather than struggling with getting out of them.  So the press of time is an excuse not a reason.

Too bad Murphy didn't follow her own advice, she might be whole and alive today..

So yeah, if he and Susan had used birth control six years before, it might not have come to this... But they didn't..  If Susan had come forward and told Harry she was pregnant instead of letting Martin use her and her child for his agenda to bring down the Red Court, it might not have come to this... But she didn't..  If Molly had come to Harry first as her talents awakened instead of thinking she could go into the minds of her friends to fix their problems... But she didn't..  If Harry's apartment house hadn't been fire bombed and if that methane tank hadn't exploded and flew through the air breaking Harry's back while he tried to save his neighbors.. Oh back up a minute, if Harry hadn't lived there in the first place... But he did..  Maybe if Harry as a frightened 16 year old kid had just gone along with being enthralled instead of going to his godmother who was a Fae.. Or maybe if his mother had...  On and on, maybe some of it or perhaps a lot of it could have been prevented... But then again, "s--t" happens, and one deals with it the best that one can.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 04:34:37 PM by Mira »