Author Topic: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?  (Read 1941 times)

Offline SerScot

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Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« on: December 07, 2022, 06:34:29 PM »
She’s mentioned a lot.  She’s an ally of Eb but she barely ever shows up on screen.  Isn’t that… odd?  Could there be a reason for that?  Could she be reserved for something… significant?
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2022, 09:35:50 PM »
My theory is her main power up is that she has Soulfire, through the Catholic/Voodoo connection that was shown in Battle Ground. That would make her an agent of the White God in the same way that Harry is, but like Harry hasn’t told anyone.

LTW was able to recognise Soulfire when Harry used it so he has seen it and only half a dozen wizards have ever wielded it (which says a lot about Wizards) so presumably he is aware she has it.

Martha voted on expelling Harry (terrified by the Little Folk control that he has, a different power up) so presumably finding out he has Soulfire will change her mind, and lead to a flip in the Senior Council against The Merlin.

That would be I think where Martha comes into her own, and why to date we haven’t seen her much on screen.

The White Council is aware that Harry is The Winter Knight, and that he controls the Little Folk (after Battle Ground). They know he is the Warden of Demonreach .They suspect he has The Eye. They don’t know he has Excalibur, the Crown, the Shroud, the Placard, and the Spear, the Word of Kemmler or Soulfire, so I suspect some of this will come out in challenge to the Merlin.

Offline g33k

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Re: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2022, 04:01:40 AM »
... the Word of Kemmler ...
That one is a bit speculative; and the implications are... kind of huge, for Harry.

Per WoJ, Jim himself was unclear if Harry was going to powerup in Changes with Mab, Lasciel, or a Darkhallow.  This means Jim might have written any of them.

But since Jim wrote the powerup-via-Mab plotline, we don't know if Jim has decided that Lash is gone-gone, or just changed/hiding/etc... but available.

Ostensibly, Lash (and all her knowledge) is gone-gone.  Harry no longer understands Ghoul, the Lash persona never comes, etc.

In theory, Lash's "speed-read" of the Word of Kemmler is thus gone, too; as is the knowledge of how to summon Lasciel's Denarius.

But then again... Harry's an unreliable narrator, Jim lies, yadda yadda ...
The case for some or all of Lash (or her knowledge) being available is pretty easy to make; Jim just hasn't written the canonical truth, yet.


But if Lash survived (aside from being a part of Bonnie)... well.
 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 06:24:43 AM by g33k »

Offline forumghost

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Re: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2022, 05:44:39 AM »
To be fair, most of the White Council doesn't show up, because Harry never talks to them unless he wants them to do him a favour, or to fight a war for him or something.

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2022, 07:42:38 AM »
As to Lash - I think we had WOJ that she died in the Deeps. But don't I recall Harry playing guitar near the end of a LATER case, and he plays Santana good for a minute - and he says thank you, and a little voice says "Anything I can, my Host" or the like? 

Offline Mira

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Re: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2022, 11:58:18 AM »
As to Lash - I think we had WOJ that she died in the Deeps. But don't I recall Harry playing guitar near the end of a LATER case, and he plays Santana good for a minute - and he says thank you, and a little voice says "Anything I can, my Host" or the like?

Yup... ;)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2022, 05:10:08 PM »
Harry was left with a musical talent and a spirit of intellect after Lash’s demise.

The former is one of the reasons I think Lea is Bob’s mum, it’s exactly the sort of deal the Leansidhe left in her wake, and I suspect Lash ‘borrowed’ from an existing template she was familiar with in creating something that would live on after her, Leas. There is no precedent for a shadow hanging around as long, so the creation of Bonny may have been a novel situation, but one Lash had seen apply in other beings, muses such as Lea, and she replicated not only the spirit of intellect, but inadvertently the musical talent that went with it.

Offline RobReece

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Re: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2022, 04:20:58 AM »
Doesn't Bonea have most if not all of Lash's knowledge,  which would include the Word of Kemmler?

Offline g33k

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Re: Why haven’t we seen more of Martha Liberty… on screen?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2022, 07:03:55 AM »
Doesn't Bonea have most if not all of Lash's knowledge,  which would include the Word of Kemmler?

Bonea is presumed to have some -- even most -- of Lash's knowledge.
I don't know there's any WoJ as to how much, exactly.  And we know it's in an unorganized and largely-useless state; but not how quickly it could be made more usable.