What the heck was Justin *UP* to??!?

[g33k]

Assuming that Malcolm was a mortal how did Lea kill him? He wasn't linked to either Court.  Doesn't that run afoul of Winter Law? Isn't that the purpose of the Winter Knight. Can Lea just go out and murder at will? Maybe I  misunderstand what Winter Law means.

I think it's only the Queens who cannot kill.

Many, MANY fae are deadly.  Redcaps, rawbones...  Genny Greenteeth & other water-nymph / water-hags drown victims; etc etc etc etc.

And it's easy enough to "arrange" for them to die.  We saw Maeve -- in front of a huge Winter Court -- induce a fatal heart-attack.  If it had been a violation of Winter Law, I expect most of the faerie courtiers would have known it!

If Lea had sold Harry why was she still hanging around. She  watched over Harry at the orphanage. And she was close enough that when Harry ran she was where she could offer him help.

The timeline of my WAG is:
 - Lea "kills" Malcolm (or arranges it)
 - Lea veils Harry from all tracking / scrying, and gets him into the State system
 - Lea watches over him for years
 - when "the time is right" (i.e. Harry makes that huge magic-boosted jump at school), Lea strikes a "bargain" with Justin, "selling" Harry to him; I assume -- Fae bargaining being what it is -- that she doesn't actually "give up" her FaerieGodmother "rights" & responsibilities; she continues to watch over Harry (but basically approves of Justin's harsh training; in fact, thinks he's too gentle).

All of this largely (or so I WAG) at the behest/instigation of Mab, who is building herself a suitably-strong Starborn-Wizard candidate Winter Knight, for the upcoming apocalyptic battles.

[morriswalters]

The guy in the WW2 cantina had cut a deal with Maeve.  He chose poorly.

We're close to  being in sync, with the primary difference being that I think she shielded Margaret until Harry was born and then she let  the curse take her.

[Mira]

Assuming that Malcolm was a mortal how did Lea kill him? He wasn't linked to either Court.  Doesn't that run afoul of Winter Law? Isn't that the purpose of the Winter Knight. Can Lea just go out and murder at will? Maybe I  misunderstand what Winter Law means.

If Lea had sold Harry why was she still hanging around. She  watched over Harry at the orphanage. And she was close enough that when Harry ran she was where she could offer him help.

Agreed, Fae cannot kill mortals, plus Harry wasn't a first born, unless the bargain was for Malcolm's first born.

If Justin was "in on" Malcolm's death, he was very-likely equally "in on" the hiding-Harry action, knew the brat was LeFay's get (and via Salic Law, a likely wizard); and maybe even knew of her Kwisatz Haderach plans.

Yes to all of the above.  I seriously doubt that Justin just happened to want to adopt a couple of future apprentices and came across Harry and Elaine by accident. Oh and isn't it a coincidence that one or both of them is a star child?  There is no such thing as coincidence, if Justin didn't plan it all, who he worked for did. Locating young Harry and Elaine was prearranged, their futures were prearranged.  Justin got into trouble when he thought he could use Elaine and Harry for himself, and underestimating sixteen year old Harry. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Agreed, Fae cannot kill mortals, plus Harry wasn't a first born, unless the bargain was for Malcolm's first born.
Yes to all of the above.  I seriously doubt that Justin just happened to want to adopt a couple of future apprentices and came across Harry and Elaine by accident. Oh and isn't it a coincidence that one or both of them is a star child?  There is no such thing as coincidence, if Justin didn't plan it all, who he worked for did. Locating young Harry and Elaine was prearranged, their futures were prearranged.  Justin got into trouble when he thought he could use Elaine and Harry for himself, and underestimating sixteen year old Harry.

The Leansidhe can and does kill mortals as a by product of her “bargain”  inspiration in return for an early death. The Mortal accepts this bargain and Lea doesn’t compromise Winter Law, indeed she is working directly with it. Malcom could only be killed by Lea if he had agreed to Lea’s bargain. That would mean though Harry has a spirit of intellect sibling we don’t know about. I don’t necessarily buy that although it fits in with Jim’s WOJ about Margaret’s bargain with Lea, if it was an adjunct of that. A Lea/Malcolm spirit of intellect would be very interesting. Definitely NOT Bob unless time travel is involved (Lea is more powerful than Kringle so not impossible) we have been told by Jim in a WOJ that we have met Bob’s father and we have met Malcolm at least in spirit form….Hmmm Jim would laugh himself sick because we presume Bob’s father is someone living in the Files rather than the spirit of someone we have seen.

[Mira]

The Leansidhe can and does kill mortals as a by product of her “bargain”  inspiration in return for an early death. The Mortal accepts this bargain and Lea doesn’t compromise Winter Law, indeed she is working directly with it.

That sounds more like suicide than murder...  It's called "free will" even if it comes from a sick mind.  However that isn't the same thing as Lea going around killing mortals who don't want to die.

[g33k]

... I think she shielded Margaret until Harry was born and then she let  the curse take her.

You're right, of course.  Margaret's bargain to protect Harry likely shielded Margaret herself, as a byproduct... right up until the moment Harry was born.

[g33k]

...  I seriously doubt that Justin just happened to want to adopt a couple of future apprentices and came across Harry and Elaine by accident. Oh and isn't it a coincidence that one or both of them is a star child?  There is no such thing as coincidence, if Justin didn't plan it all, who he worked for did. Locating young Harry and Elaine was prearranged, their futures were prearranged... 

I don't think it has ever been specified whether Harry's "First time" (manifesting magic) was under care of the orphanage, or Justin.  Really could have been either.  I'm inclined to think Harry showed magic at the orphanage & Justin arrived to adopt him shortly thereafter, but I know of no defiinitive answer (or even strong hints, really) either way.

But no; Justin wasn't rando-adopting.  He wanted (and got) strong magical apprentices.

I'm unclear on whether he wanted (and got) Starborn's, or if that was someone else's arrangement (lookin' at you, Mab!); certainly, it was no accident.

[Tinfoil hat]

@geek and CT. BEEN THINKING OF SOMETHING I LIKE THIS FOR A WHILE. The hat was supposed to stop you stealing my thoughts before i had them. Hats off to you. Slow clapping sounds
I think the main driver for all this is Mr Sunshine.  At some point Harry is going to be like 'the world was on fire and it wasn't my fault '
Mab rolls her eyes and goes of course its not.
Then the reveal than Mab, Odin and Mr Sunshine manipulated nemesis in to infecting justin.

[forumghost]

Pesonally I don't think Justin was Nemesis'd at all.

Remember, we never get any actual indication that hhwb was actually sent by Justin, Harry just assumes that because hhwb mentions him.

hhwb was definitely trying to manipulate Harry in that fight, and the last thing that Justin said before he decided to suddenly drop old-school indoctrination for magical enthrallment was that he had enemies and needed people he could trust.

Methinks he got wind of a walker looking for him and decided he needed his pet starborn ready yesterday.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Tinfoil Hat, as I point out Uriel has an overview of the Multiverse, but can hardly intervene in any particular universe. That means that Uriel can do the slightest of nudges in a universe where it will do the most good. The Dresden we see is the Dresden who is going to win, all the others failed, and we don’t see them (until Mirror Mirror).

We know Uriel has nudged this Dresden definitely by providing him with Soul Fire in Small Favour and a fully fit Michael in Skin Game. I suspect turning him down in Changes was a nudge towards the Winter Knight Mantle given that Sanya saved him, and the same in Battle Ground saving him from killing Murphy’s killer.

I think Uriel was responsible for Mouse ending up with Dresden, mouse is semi-divine himself, another nudge. We don’t see for example the universe where Harry gave Mouse back to the brother, despite Uriel’s nudge and Harry died at the hands of the black court vamp security guard. By Peace Talks Harry is recognising some of these nudges and anticipates them, he isn’t surprised Sanya is in town.

Uriel’s involvement with This Dresden I think dates from when Harry met Michael, those universes where Harry never met Michael or either never existed are all effectively dead ends from Uriel’s point of view. Uriel doesn’t need to intervene earlier than this because free will across a multiverse means at least one Dresden gets to the point of meeting Michael. He just has to wait and see.

Mab isn’t in a similar position she has only one universe  to play with but she has a greater scope of action in that universe. She isn’t an Intellectus so she won’t know Harry from Tom or Dick unless and until he comes to her attention. Lea was aware of Harry from his birth, but Lea had her own agenda for Harry, a universe where Harry Dresden became a Furry. If Mab was involved with Harry it was most likely when Mister came into Harry’s life and he was Mab’s spy (Malk Changeling theory) around 1997. If so this may have been just after Harry met Michael (we aren’t given a timing for this but it would be around 1997 given Misters Age ) which would mean Uriel tipping Mab off about Harry. One of Harry’s memories of his father was of him picking up an abandoned kitten and nursing it back to health. I wouldn’t put it past Mab to rummage around in Harry’s memories and then selecting a Malk Changeling Kitten cut off the overlong tail and leave it for Harry to find, as a spy behind his threshold, separate to Lea.

Mab only becomes actively involved following Grave Peril which gives her the opportunity to hijack Leas agenda and her bargain with Harry. Winter Law would have prevented her involvement in Leas bargains before this. This gave her a handle on Harry for the first time.

[g33k]

Pesonally I don't think Justin was Nemesis'd at all.

Remember, we never get any actual indication that hhwb was actually sent by Justin, Harry just assumes that because hhwb mentions him.

This has occurred to me, too.  But you don't have to be "Nemesis'd" to be arrogant -- or desperate -- enough to think you can summon an Outsider and NOT pay an outsized price; and as we know, wizards don't lack for arrogance.  Since he had stolen Kemmler's black-magic artifact -- and was working mind-control magic -- we know he was willing to repeatedly break the Laws.

The complete lack of any actual Justin+HWWB moments and/or summoning is notable, though!

[Mira]

I don't think it has ever been specified whether Harry's "First time" (manifesting magic) was under care of the orphanage, or Justin.  Really could have been either.  I'm inclined to think Harry showed magic at the orphanage & Justin arrived to adopt him shortly thereafter, but I know of no defiinitive answer (or even strong hints, really) either way.

There was, I cannot remember the book, but Harry says he was about eleven.  It wasn't overt maybe, but he said it showed itself when suddenly he could out jump and run the other kids. Harry showed magic and Justin just happened to arrive shortly after to adopt him? Really? All just a coincidence?

But no; Justin wasn't rando-adopting.  He wanted (and got) strong magical apprentices.

I'm unclear on whether he wanted (and got) Starborn's, or if that was someone else's arrangement (lookin' at you, Mab!); certainly, it was no accident.

Not Mab, remember the tidbits HWWB tormented young Harry with just before Harry blew him up in the gas station.

[Snark Knight]

I lay Margaret's death at Lea's feet.  A White vampire for Malcolm.  Maybe Madeline.

I kind of doubt a WCV killing someone so quietly that their kid sleeps through it in the same hotel room. Just because he died smiling doesn't mean it was a Raith.

[Mira]

I kind of doubt a WCV killing someone so quietly that their kid sleeps through it in the same hotel room. Just because he died smiling doesn't mean it was a Raith.

  Depends on how tired the kid is and how sound a sleeper he is.  So yeah, very plausible that six year old Harry slept through it, particularly if there was no struggle on the part of Malcolm.  Have you ever carried your sleeping child from the car to the house? While yeah, some kids do wake up, but the majority sleep through it all.

[morriswalters]

I kind of doubt a WCV killing someone so quietly that their kid sleeps through it in the same hotel room. Just because he died smiling doesn't mean it was a Raith.

Sex isn't always loud and noisy, even for Whites. But it's just a thought.

There was, I cannot remember the book, but Harry says he was about eleven.  It wasn't overt maybe, but he said it showed itself when suddenly he could out jump and run the other kids. Harry showed magic and Justin just happened to arrive shortly after to adopt him? Really? All just a coincidence? Not Mab, remember the tidbits HWWB tormented young Harry with just before Harry blew him up in the gas station.

The answer to which book is Ghost Story.