In defense of the WC

[Ed0517]

I think it remains to be seen how formidable they remain; the modern White Council may be a bit of a Paper Tiger.  A few formidable members, like Eb & most of the Senior Council, many of the Wardens, a few others...  But (particularly with the influx of very-young & inexperienced Wardens) the overall combat fitness of the WC is surely reduced in the post-VampWar era!   Certainly there are many WC wizards who are little to no use in combat, nor even much use for logistics/support.

Their numbers are down after their wars. They are likely not as strong as they once were. But consider the survivors now are blooded veterans. The young wardens who survived the wars are now considerably more dangerous per man than before, and many of their opponents have also been weakened.  The Blamps have never recovered from Dracula - sure, the survivors are the stronger deadlier ones... but so few. The Ramps are GONE. The Whites lost a number of high ranks in the Deeps, and they do not infect, they breed, and Lara is even less an open warfare type than most.  The Fomor were hurt in the battle of Chicago - with few wizards involved, their big gun taken away. And trying to take out a noncombatant former KOTC might draw attention. Plus... the surface powers that be will now know more about them.  Who isn;t damaged? Outsiders? The WC was not going to be such a deterrent to them already

[Mira]

Their numbers are down after their wars. They are likely not as strong as they once were. But consider the survivors now are blooded veterans. The young wardens who survived the wars are now considerably more dangerous per man than before, and many of their opponents have also been weakened.  The Blamps have never recovered from Dracula - sure, the survivors are the stronger deadlier ones... but so few. The Ramps are GONE. The Whites lost a number of high ranks in the Deeps, and they do not infect, they breed, and Lara is even less an open warfare type than most.  The Fomor were hurt in the battle of Chicago - with few wizards involved, their big gun taken away. And trying to take out a noncombatant former KOTC might draw attention. Plus... the surface powers that be will now know more about them.  Who isn;t damaged? Outsiders? The WC was not going to be such a deterrent to them already

They might be fewer than they were, but I wouldn't want to screw with them. 

[g33k]

Their numbers are down after their wars. They are likely not as strong as they once were. But consider the survivors now are blooded veterans. The young wardens who survived the wars are now considerably more dangerous per man than before, and many of their opponents have also been weakened.  The Blamps have never recovered from Dracula - sure, the survivors are the stronger deadlier ones... but so few. The Ramps are GONE. The Whites lost a number of high ranks in the Deeps, and they do not infect, they breed, and Lara is even less an open warfare type than most.  The Fomor were hurt in the battle of Chicago - with few wizards involved, their big gun taken away. And trying to take out a noncombatant former KOTC might draw attention. Plus... the surface powers that be will now know more about them.  Who isn;t damaged? Outsiders? The WC was not going to be such a deterrent to them already

Arguably, MOST of the major players are all in the same state:  reduced in numbers, but most having each-one-much-more-dangerous survivors.

But the White Council, in particular, may be "shakier" than most of the others.

#1 -
Until the Vamp-War, I don't think they had any substantive conflicts with most of the other major powers.  There was the fight with Kemmler, but (from others' POV) that may have looked a lot like a mortal-wizard-vs-mortal-wizard fight.  One of the recurring elements of the novels is that people keep referring to the White Council as "doddering old fools," perhaps a once-mighty tree but now weak & aged & ready to fall.  I don't doubt that it's stronger than those outside POV's think... but I also think that when multiple predators are calling out a weakness, it's likely real.  Nobody really knows just how dangerous the White Council is (or isn't), I think; not even the White Council itself !

#2 - Most of the dangerous monsters are... well, dangerous.  The same is not nearly so true for wizards.  Many of them have little to offer a war-effort.  Combat powers aren't the most common suite of aptitudes, and even logistical-support wizards aren't dime-a-dozen.  But those are mostly who the fights have been taking:  the fighters, and the supply-lines.  Leaving behind mostly noncombatant wizards, ill-suited to fight whampires and blampires and fomor and warlocks &c...

#3 - The WC is like the Whamps: "they don't infect, they breed."  Furthermore, the little proto-wizards then need extensive training; without it, they're at least as much a danger to themselves and their allies, as they are to any foes (and the combat-wizards being teachers aren't on the front lines being soldiers).  Compare a whampire:  they can get basic combat training (hand-to-hand, blades, guns) in their pre-teen years (from mortals!), but when they do the 1st-kill-whampout, they *instantly* become vastly more-dangerous, with even ordinary whamps gaining speed and strength to beat most professional soldiers, plus their whamp-whammy powers.

[Ed0517]

They might be fewer than they were, but I wouldn't want to screw with them.

They are fewer in the same way an antelope herd that just got chased by lions is fewer - there had been 100, and averaged 30 mph. Now they are 75, but average speed is 33 mph. Fewer, but the average antelope is faster than the average before

[g33k]

They are fewer in the same way an antelope herd that just got chased by lions is fewer - there had been 100, and averaged 30 mph. Now they are 75, but average speed is 33 mph. Fewer, but the average antelope is faster than the average before

That's when you just look at the Wardens.
When you look at the White Council as a whole, it's weaker, because the combat types suffered the bulk of the casualties, leaving the more-delicate / less-survivable noncombatant (*) wizards largely unimpacted.


(*) Note that I include the logistics/support & healing wizards among the "combat types" as they increase the White Council's combat ability... and suffered for it, during the Ramp war!  The White Council's ability to wage war is substantially degraded.

[Mira]

 

That's when you just look at the Wardens.
When you look at the White Council as a whole, it's weaker, because the combat types suffered the bulk of the casualties, leaving the more-delicate / less-survivable noncombatant (*) wizards largely unimpacted.


(*) Note that I include the logistics/support & healing wizards among the "combat types" as they increase the White Council's combat ability... and suffered for it, during the Ramp war!  The White Council's ability to wage war is substantially degraded.

I'd be careful separating "combat and non-combat" wizards though.  Just because they are healing wizards it doesn't mean they cannot do major ass kicking if they choose to.  Best example of that is Listens to Wind, he is the chief healer of the White Council,yet he also managed to kick a Skin Walker's ass.

[g33k]

I'd be careful separating "combat and non-combat" wizards though.  Just because they are healing wizards it doesn't mean they cannot do major ass kicking if they choose to.  Best example of that is Listens to Wind, he is the chief healer of the White Council,yet he also managed to kick a Skin Walker's ass.

You have a point.
Harry is an unreliable narrator, and it's only his word as to the relative rarity of combat-capable wizards.

Most wizards may be much more dangerous than Harry gives them credit for!

As Harry himself said, his attitude is "fuck subtle!"
But those subtler magics may be almost as effective, overall...  And there's a lot more of them.
 

[Tinfoil hat]

You have a point.
Harry is an unreliable narrator, and it's only his word as to the relative rarity of combat-capable wizards.

Most wizards may be much more dangerous than Harry gives them credit for!

As Harry himself said, his attitude is "fuck subtle!"
But those subtler magics may be almost as effective, overall...  And there's a lot more of them.

Being a non combat wizard doesn't mean you cant fight. Think of Ancient Mai she scares everyone but i dont see her as a fighter. She is the type to f u up in other ways. Its implied that that WC also fought the Reds using good old economies. Freezing assets and such. That probably limited the damage the Red court could do by a lot. The Ltw is a healer, Morty is a nerd but those 2 will mess u up. The Merlin isn't much of a fight, so is Mab and Odin( not saying they cant) just that to them fighting is for losers and a last resort. If all else fails then its time to to show you how closely related to grass ur ass is.

[Tinfoil hat]

I was thinking about the Modern day geopolitical situation. And how its just a mess. Naturally i thought about the Dresden files and how it would complicate things
Was thinking about Martha Liberty. She lives in Liberia. She could a former freed slave. And shes 300 years old. Imagine the anger she has. Or she is a native who suffered from the results of the American slaves being brought to Africa. It was not a smooth transition, it got bloody really fast.
From that point LTW is a native American, Eb and the Merlin fought on opposite sides of a war. Imagine the number of people carrying grieves. Africans, asians Europeans its a wonder the WC hasn't torn itself apart.
What ever its faults the WC has held humanity together