The Law

[Dina]

Yes, the Lasciel manipulation was so well done. Well, as most things. Jim is a wonderful author.

[Snark Knight]

Harry only went to the Gold Coast to visit Thomas and Justine, and the last time he was there he and Eb were attacked by Outsiders. Was Nameless or Laplander responsible for whistling them in?

I'm not sure either of them qualify as enough of a free-willed mortal to summon Outsiders.

As a scion of a dark god and a mortal, Nameless might have qualified ... before completing whatever ascension his 'apotheosis' entailed. But if a scion turns himself into something entirely inhuman, doesn't that count as Choosing the immortal side of your parentage?

It's not totally clear whether hags (I'm figuring the Scandinavian ones are presumably cousins of the Hecatean hags from Welcome to the Jungle) are dark witches who've enhanced themselves, or something entirely inhuman. She'd probably have a better chance of being able summon Outsiders than Nameless, though.

Nonetheless, I still doubt Nameless and Laplander are Cowl and Kumori.  Kumori at least thinks she's a well-intentioned extremist - she used necromancy to save life, and she talked to Harry after getting the drop on him instead of just blasting him in the back. Ms. Laplander is just going through life looking for excuses to do violence, and Bob's analysis suggests that's entirely normal for what she is - it's not Nemfection twisting her, or a personal grudge Harry foiled the Darkhallow.  And Nameless himself doesn't have any good reason to explain having been plugged in to the White Council's Warden files on Harry and wondering what all the fuss is about. Nameless might well be involved with the Circle, but it doesn't seem credible he's been posing as human to infiltrate the Council and get high-clearance insider information.

[Dina]

Yes, I do not think Lapland is Kumari.
Your comment reminded me something else. I am always disgusted when Harry seems too ignorant. For a person who mentioned having been a magic nerd, who had an spirit of intellect for many years, his culture has some holes. For example, he did not know the word "apotheosis".

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I never said Laplander is Kumori. She would have been a potential liability in Dead Beat, see how she flew off the handle in The Law, that is something Harry will doubtlessly exploit in future. Nameless wouldn’t allow her off the leash as he did Kumori to run around on her own.

Cowl and Kumori have not been seen together since Dead Beat, nothing to suggest they are still working together. Nameless may have been owed a favour now discharged. That’s the Winter Winter way.

[g33k]

... I am always disgusted when Harry seems too ignorant. For a person who mentioned having been a magic nerd, who had an spirit of intellect for many years, his culture has some holes. For example, he did not know the word "apotheosis".

I think we can take it as given that Justin gave a highly-edited & intentionally-incommplete sort of training to Harry & Elaine.

Almost nothing on mind-magic, to leave them maximally-vulnerable to Enthrallment.  Nothing about the White Council, so they never developed curiosity there, or considered it as a place they might seek shelter/protection.  Little to nothing about other supernatural powers of the world -- we see Bob tutor Harry on these elements repeatedly.

And then Eb felt that what Harry really needed was to have his character rebuilt, his moral compass, his soul.  Eb didn't provide very much more magical training, though he did bring Harry to WC meetings &c.

So whenever Harry seems oddly-ignorant, I chalk it up to this factor (and usually pause to wonder, how did this bit of ignorance feature into Justin's plans?).

But sometimes, people just have an odd gap in their knowledge.

[Mira]

I think we can take it as given that Justin gave a highly-edited & intentionally-incommplete sort of training to Harry & Elaine.

Almost nothing on mind-magic, to leave them maximally-vulnerable to Enthrallment.  Nothing about the White Council, so they never developed curiosity there, or considered it as a place they might seek shelter/protection.  Little to nothing about other supernatural powers of the world -- we see Bob tutor Harry on these elements repeatedly.

And then Eb felt that what Harry really needed was to have his character rebuilt, his moral compass, his soul.  Eb didn't provide very much more magical training, though he did bring Harry to WC meetings &c.

So whenever Harry seems oddly-ignorant, I chalk it up to this factor (and usually pause to wonder, how did this bit of ignorance feature into Justin's plans?).

But sometimes, people just have an odd gap in their knowledge.

Well, in the case of Harry and Elaine, Justin had no intention of teaching them about the White Council, I doubt that he taught them much about the Seven Laws either.  His intention was to raise up a couple of trained enforcers to serve whatever his cause was [which is still unclear] I also think they were expendable as far as he was concerned. Their training reflects all of that.

[morriswalters]

Yes, I do not think Lapland is Kumari.
Your comment reminded me something else. I am always disgusted when Harry seems too ignorant. For a person who mentioned having been a magic nerd, who had an spirit of intellect for many years, his culture has some holes. For example, he did not know the word "apotheosis".

Obviously you never had a self directed education of the type Harry did. Given his background I would expect gaps in his vocabulary. Butcher established this type of thing when he gave Harry Latin lessons and a G.E.D.

Well, in the case of Harry and Elaine, Justin had no intention of teaching them about the White Council, I doubt that he taught them much about the Seven Laws either.  His intention was to raise up a couple of trained enforcers to serve whatever his cause was [which is still unclear] I also think they were expendable as far as he was concerned. Their training reflects all of that.

I doubt he considered Harry as expendable. The Black Council and many of Harry's so called friends exerted some serious effort to make Harry a weapon.  You can get muscle anywhere, but you can't just walk down to your local manpower agency and lease a monster. They take some serious planning as Butcher has pushed out over and  over again.

[Dina]

g33k, you are right, Justin education explains many of the gaps in Harry's knowledge of the magical world. But he told us several times that he studied, that he was a sort of magical nerd. And he has Bob for questions. I find weird that he does not know that particular world, but of course, it may be that I am in the wrong and the word is not as common as I imagine, unless you have an specific background (or saw a picture called "The apotheosis of the dollar" when you were a chiild, as I did  )

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry was being prepared as weapon, The Destroyer. Elaine was a way to keep Harry in check.

I am not sure Harry’s will can be fully suborned, no one has ever succeeded and as Starborn he is immune to Outsider influence. Harry has also broken through prophecy, curses and other forms of predestination, he even confuses the Gatekeeper at times creating a flux in probability. In that case what is left is to manipulate those persons whom Harry loves in order to manipulate Harry.

[Mira]

g33k, you are right, Justin education explains many of the gaps in Harry's knowledge of the magical world. But he told us several times that he studied, that he was a sort of magical nerd. And he has Bob for questions. I find weird that he does not know that particular world, but of course, it may be that I am in the wrong and the word is not as common as I imagine, unless you have an specific background (or saw a picture called "The apotheosis of the dollar" when you were a chiild, as I did  )

But Harry also says he is lazy, that up until the time he took on Molly as an apprentice he did only as much as he needed to go get by.  Yeah, if he was interested like in fire magic and some in earth magic he applied himself more.  However for things like veils he did only what he needed to do to get by, that has changed somewhat, his veils have improved as a consequence of being Molly's master.  His Latin has also improved.

[Dina]

Yes, that is all true.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

One wonders what all the mediation Harry is undertaking in Little Things is for. The Law makes it clear he isn’t sleeping and has now fully equipped his personal armaments, and he is stymied on the Thomas and Justine situation, so I think he is doing something, something big, and something he hasn’t done before and which might impress even Eb.

I think he is moving the access point of the Castle from Leas Murder Garden in the Never Never to somewhere a bit safer, as a panic room for Maggie. The Winter Knights quarters in Arctis Tor, deep in Winter. I think having Toot and the Za Guard move in was to aid this,  they are Winters Soldiers so both are now fortresses of Winter staffed by Winters warriors and both contain the personal quarters of the Winter Knight. Is so that is a feat we have only seen someone at Leas power level or above achieve. Mab almost certainly helped with Hades Vault.

If that works then if the Castle is under attack, Maggie and Mouse go to Arctis Tor under Mab’s protection as the child of her Vassal, and Harry is free to wreak havoc on the intruders.

I have posited that Arctis Tor also contains the access point for Demonreach in Mab’s Ice Garden, which the Gatekeeper and Mab used Harry might not realise this. When he does he can parkour along the corridors of Arctis Tor to Demonreach in a couple of minutes to get crystals or superweapons.

The other thing he is probably working on is how to teleport himself and the bad guys to the Lakeshore so he can summon Alfred. Water grounds magic so it might be a bit risky teleporting over a large body of water. That would explain why Demonreach is on an island. It strikes me that following The Law there is a nice Lake Shore residence whose owner has gone missing and won’t be missed, which would be ideal to set a circle up on.

[Fcrate]

g33k, you are right, Justin education explains many of the gaps in Harry's knowledge of the magical world. But he told us several times that he studied, that he was a sort of magical nerd. And he has Bob for questions. I find weird that he does not know that particular world, but of course, it may be that I am in the wrong and the word is not as common as I imagine, unless you have an specific background (or saw a picture called "The apotheosis of the dollar" when you were a chiild, as I did  )

Well, his knowledge gap never surprised me as much as the non-existent gap in his knowledge of pop culture. He knows too many references by heart for someone who 1. Doesn't have much time. 2. Can't use technology.

[g33k]

Well, in the case of Harry and Elaine, Justin had no intention of teaching them about the White Council, I doubt that he taught them much about the Seven Laws either...

Oh, no... he had every intention of teaching them about the White Council... as dangerous enemies.

He would do that immediately after getting them both completely Enthralled.

As for the "Laws of Magic," I expect the curriculum there was "... more like guidelines, really."  He doesn't want them powering-up their OWN mojo until after Enthrallment, lest they resist him; and Lawbreaking is a quick path to power.  So he would likely have carefully explained those as very-risky "advanced magic" (that he'd teach them later (and he would have)).