"Thou Shalt Not Open the Outer Gates"

[g33k]

This is the final Law of Magic, as written by the White Council.

As I wrote elsethread, "... WoJ has it that each of the White Council's 'Laws of Magic' is going to have a book in which Harry seriously breaks that law..."

And I'm having a REALLY hard time trying to imagine Dresden -- Starborn, Outsider-hating Dresden -- opening the Outer Gates.  I guess this happens in the final act of the final book of the final trilogy -- the BAT, Big Apocalyptic Trilogy.

The only way I can envision Harry doing this is if he has a metric crapton of Outsider-Killing magic, opening the Gates and killing EVERYTHING that comes through.  But that, in turn, is power to dwarf all mortal power, exceeding even what Darkhallow!Harry would have held; more like the power an archangel wields!  Mab herself is merely fighting a holding-action (and an imperfect one at that, since we see the Outsiders keep breaking through)
 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

My view is that this is the Last Cycle whatever, Harry does is pivotal in stopping it, which is what the stakes are so high that an Archangel will bet their grace. The cycle will continue but the Gates defence will be far too strong for the Outsiders to ever succeed, because we will have had the Singularity creating the White God by the next Cycle. The Singularity at its core needs I think an Archangel or equivalent as it’s nexus.

I think Harry does this by setting up Hell against the Outsiders. It’s no coincidence Outsiders are more vulnerable to fire than anything else. Harry probably open the gates only for a pit into Hell to form.

[g33k]

My view is that this is the Last Cycle whatever, Harry does is pivotal in stopping it, which is what the stakes are so high that an Archangel will bet their grace. The cycle will continue but the Gates defence will be far too strong for the Outsiders to ever succeed, because we will have had the Singularity creating the White God by the next Cycle. The Singularity at its core needs I think an Archangel or equivalent as it’s nexus.

I think Harry does this by setting up Hell against the Outsiders. It’s no coincidence Outsiders are more vulnerable to fire than anything else. Harry probably open the gates only for a pit into Hell to form.

Interesting notion.

By this analysis, "Lucifer" himself was being forged -- by the Fall, by the nature of Hell/Hellfire -- into the ultimate anti-Outsider weapon.

Possibly, Lucifer was even a willing agent & participant in the whole scheme, ultimately on "Team Good Guy."
 

[Con]

Well we're assuming Harry;s only role is to *destroy* Outsiders, but it's gotta be more than that otherwise everyone wouldn't be so cagey and secretive about it. River Shoulders thinks it's not his place. Listens to Winds needs to call in favors for a year before he'll even consider it, Ebenezar feels guilty about something of it, Mab is Impatient and Drakul is teasing manipulative about it.

My bet is Harry will have to control the Outsiders at some point and it's gonna cost him something. Something big.

[Fcrate]

Well we're assuming Harry;s only role is to *destroy* Outsiders, but it's gotta be more than that otherwise everyone wouldn't be so cagey and secretive about it. River Shoulders thinks it's not his place. Listens to Winds needs to call in favors for a year before he'll even consider it, Ebenezar feels guilty about something of it, Mab is Impatient and Drakul is teasing manipulative about it.

My bet is Harry will have to control the Outsiders at some point and it's gonna cost him something. Something big.

That ^
Also, so far, Harry's magic had more effect on outsiders than other people, but not by much. He struggled against Sharkface and after 3 encounters finally managed to kill his construct. The outsider survived.

[Mira]

This is the final Law of Magic, as written by the White Council.

As I wrote elsethread, "... WoJ has it that each of the White Council's 'Laws of Magic' is going to have a book in which Harry seriously breaks that law..."

And I'm having a REALLY hard time trying to imagine Dresden -- Starborn, Outsider-hating Dresden -- opening the Outer Gates.  I guess this happens in the final act of the final book of the final trilogy -- the BAT, Big Apocalyptic Trilogy.

The only way I can envision Harry doing this is if he has a metric crapton of Outsider-Killing magic, opening the Gates and killing EVERYTHING that comes through.  But that, in turn, is power to dwarf all mortal power, exceeding even what Darkhallow!Harry would have held; more like the power an archangel wields!  Mab herself is merely fighting a holding-action (and an imperfect one at that, since we see the Outsiders keep breaking through)

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't Rashid the Gatekeeper already go in and out of the Outer Gates[Cold Days] as general to help Winter's army fight what is out there?  Isn't it so that his false eye is made out of the same material as the Gates themselves and with it he scans the wounded to make sure Nemesis isn't hitching a ride.. Since Rashid is on the Senior Council, does that make him exempt for the Law?  Or is it that there really isn't any law about not opening the Outer Gates.

[vincentric]

Plenty of people go out to battle beyond the Outer Gates. It's symbolic, the closed gates represent a point that the Outsiders must pass in order to freely enter reality. It's represented by a wall for the perceptions of the Sidhe and any wizards that are there to defend the point. I'm sure the beings on a level above Mab see something else.

You can see the Gates as a bar with a long line. Only those with a stamp can enter and they're at capacity so no stamps for you. The Outsiders that do get in are gatecrashers or sneaks.

[Mira]

Plenty of people go out to battle beyond the Outer Gates. It's symbolic, the closed gates represent a point that the Outsiders must pass in order to freely enter reality. It's represented by a wall for the perceptions of the Sidhe and any wizards that are there to defend the point. I'm sure the beings on a level above Mab see something else.

You can see the Gates as a bar with a long line. Only those with a stamp can enter and they're at capacity so no stamps for you. The Outsiders that do get in are gatecrashers or sneaks.

Outsiders get around the Gates when they are called up by a mortal, they just can't knock and open the Gate.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Well we're assuming Harry;s only role is to *destroy* Outsiders, but it's gotta be more than that otherwise everyone wouldn't be so cagey and secretive about it. River Shoulders thinks it's not his place. Listens to Winds needs to call in favors for a year before he'll even consider it, Ebenezar feels guilty about something of it, Mab is Impatient and Drakul is teasing manipulative about it.

My bet is Harry will have to control the Outsiders at some point and it's gonna cost him something. Something big.

I think it is a shot at becoming the White God, it is after all what Lucifer ever really wanted, it’s the one thing the Devil could be manipulated with.

Archangels power levels are so insane that most use of their power is worse than the Eye, it breaks reality. However the Gates are not in the fragile reality of the mortal world imperilling humans who are essential for the Singularity they are in the deepest part of the Never Never.

Harry gives Lucifer the Eye, I bet Lucifer can recharge it a lot faster than Ethnui.

[BrainFireBob]

IIRC, it's "Thou shalt not seek beyond." That's a critical difference.

I assume Harry will need to go somewhere Outside or confront something Outside. Is that where the Stars and Stones exist?

Normally,, there'd be bo good reason to do so and massive risk of corruption. A 5 minute trip every millenium's a pretty explicit exception, much like self-defense against someone killing you with magic, or using mind magic to help someone with something they already want to do (quit drugs).

[g33k]

IIRC, it's "Thou shalt not seek beyond." That's a critical difference
...

I don't have e-copies to ctrl-F, alas; and insufficient time to page-flip to find them.

But I grabbed the text from the Dresden Files wiki:
https://dresdenfiles.fandom.com/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Magic

[morriswalters]

Dead Beat
Chapter 31

There was a specific Law of Magic against contacting them—Thou Shalt Not Open the Outer Gates.

[Mira]

Dead Beat
Chapter 31

Unless you are the Gatekeeper.  Chapter 34, Cold Days.  Heck his eye is made from the same material as the Gates.. Much like the Blackstaff, the Gatekeeper is the exception to the rule. 

[g33k]

...  Heck his eye is made from the same material as the Gates ...

Has this been WoJ'ed?  I thought it was only a fantheory.

... Much like the Blackstaff, the Gatekeeper is the exception to the rule. 

...
I wonder if other specific roles exist, with specific exceptions to the Laws...?

[seanham]

Unless you are the Gatekeeper.  Chapter 34, Cold Days.  Heck his eye is made from the same material as the Gates.. Much like the Blackstaff, the Gatekeeper is the exception to the rule.

I don't think he is. Remember, at the end of the conversation, the Gatekeeper says something to the effect of, the Council only knows what it has to about our jobs. Meaning that only Harry knows the full extent of his job (if that). Yes, the senior council probably knows something about his job (but not the fullness of it), but they could also believe one thing and in reality, he does something very different.