Harry still hosts Lasciel's Shadow

[Arjan]

The brimstone is just the flip side of Harry’s soul fire. He has access to both because that is what access to soulfire implicitly also means. The brimstone smell was the hellfire offering itself and Harry’s rage could have caused Harry’s fall and then he would have used hellfire in stead of soulfire.

[EBRIEN]

Didn't Uriel give Harry Soulfire in response to his access to Hellfire? In the aquarium with the force hand? He asks Bob later and Bob says it's soulfire. Until then, it was only hellfire.

[forumghost]

Didn't Uriel give Harry Soulfire in response to his access to Hellfire? In the aquarium with the force hand? He asks Bob later and Bob says it's soulfire. Until then, it was only hellfire.

Nah, Harry lost access to Hellfire after Lash got nuked out of his brain by the psychic attack in the Raith Deeps. Mr Sunshine gave Harry Soulfire in response to the Devil giving Nick a bunch of Hellfire in Small Favor

[g33k]

Nah, Harry lost access to Hellfire after Lash got nuked out of his brain by the psychic attack in the Raith Deeps. Mr Sunshine gave Harry Soulfire in response to the Devil giving Nick a bunch of Hellfire in Small Favor

Dunno... I wonder if Harry doesn't still know how to use Hellfire; he just chooses not to.

Uriel didn't "give" him Soulfire, Uriel merely "nudged" him, showed him HOW to use Soulfire.

While Lasciel's Shadow was still "incognito," I think the "Hellfire" was being managed through Id!Harry -- the Shadow showed Harry's power-hungry self how to use Hellfire.

[Mira]

Dunno... I wonder if Harry doesn't still know how to use Hellfire; he just chooses not to.

Uriel didn't "give" him Soulfire, Uriel merely "nudged" him, showed him HOW to use Soulfire.

While Lasciel's Shadow was still "incognito," I think the "Hellfire" was being managed through Id!Harry -- the Shadow showed Harry's power-hungry self how to use Hellfire.

Except Harry doesn't seem very power hungry. 

The brimstone is just the flip side of Harry’s soul fire. He has access to both because that is what access to soulfire implicitly also means. The brimstone smell was the hellfire offering itself and Harry’s rage could have caused Harry’s fall and then he would have used hellfire in stead of soulfire.

Key word here is, "could have."  Once he came to his senses, he remained as he was before, except for the great shame he felt for losing it and hurting his friends in the process.  Harry still loves his friends, and as Uriel told him, that will put him back on track.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The smell of Brimstone wasn’t Harry using Hellfire, it was Rudy crapping his pants. Occams  razor, the simplest explanation is most often the right one.

[Mira]

The smell of Brimstone wasn’t Harry using Hellfire, it was Rudy crapping his pants. Occams  razor, the simplest explanation is most often the right one.

That could be too..

[g33k]

Except Harry doesn't seem very power hungry
... 

id!Harry is plenty power-hungry.
Mostly, Harry keeps a tight rein on his id.

But the Shadow & id!Harry were "talking" before Harry himself knew about it.  And Harry had gotten that whole brimstone/Hellfire thing going, also before Harry himself began overtly talking to the Shadow... how, exactly, if not by working with id!Harry, and getting the Hellfire power-up? (that Harry in his conscious mind would have rejected)

[Mira]

But the Shadow & id!Harry were "talking" before Harry himself knew about it.  And Harry had gotten that whole brimstone/Hellfire thing going, also before Harry himself began overtly talking to the Shadow... how, exactly, if not by working with id!Harry, and getting the Hellfire power-up? (that Harry in his conscious mind would have rejected)

Hell fire didn't happen until after Harry realized that Sheila was the Shadow. There is no evidence that the Id had gotten it going before Harry became aware.  We know while he was talking, but the point is the Id has never been able to take over Harry.  I think there is more evidence for that actually, because the point of the Shadow was to corrupt and weaken Harry's mind and will so that eventually he'd accept the coin.  This didn't happen, so it is natural that the Shadow would try a different angle, Harry's Id.  The Id has always been Harry's dark side, long before Lasciel came along, but needed because a lot of Harry's strength comes from it.  Another Classic Star Trek episode, that Jim has borrowed from, a transporter accident where Kirk is split into the two side of his personality, the good conscious side and his Id if you will or the dark side.. Turns out he needed both to be what he is and survive/

[g33k]

Hell fire didn't happen until after Harry realized that Sheila was the Shadow. There is no evidence that the Id had gotten it going before Harry became aware.

Harry's Fuego was smelling of brimstone (without his conscious intent, nor awareness of Sheila as the Shadow) -- and Harry was stressing on it, understanding it to be an influence of Lasciel.  We don't know, with any certainty, that it was providing any substantive power-up... or that it wasn't.  But it was really there; it wasn't just the Shadow playing mental games.  Will smelled it:  it was part of recounting how Harry had become darker, scarier... and more-powerful.  The fight with Cowl scared the Alphas; they saw for the first time that Harry was moving to a power-scale that was simply out of their league.

I call that "evidence" ... I don't call it "proof!"  But I'm advancing a theory, not demonstrating a fact.

When Harry went after Rudy, we saw:
Out of control rage
Muderous intent, and acting on that intent.
Smell of brimstone.
And all the actve Knights of the Cross -- the people tasked with redeeming the Hosts of the Fallen -- taking the field to contain Harry.

The theory fits.  Other theories fit, too.  This one fits... better than most. (YMMV)

... We know while he was talking, but the point is the Id has never been able to take over Harry... 

I'll argue that it has, a (very) few times.  Id!Harry almost "took him over" outside Victor Sells' lakehouse, before the climactic battle (it showed us that Harry's dark-side and will-to-power were very strong, sometimes only barely leashed); and a few other times (e.g. when Molly provoked him to slag the garbage-can outside Priority Health(name?) aka the New Velvet Room.  It managed to fully do so in Battle for Chicago, when Rudy killed Karrin.

Mostly, the id's urging Harry are just that:  "urges" (often dark urges, like most of us have).  Mostly, Harry is VERY good about keeping them contained.  But nobody's perfect.   And while Id!Harry almost never gets to pick exactly what Harry does, there is some influence on Harry's choices & actions.

... This didn't happen, so it is natural that the Shadow would try a different angle, Harry's Id.  The Id has always been Harry's dark side, long before Lasciel came along, but needed because a lot of Harry's strength comes from it.  Another Classic Star Trek episode, that Jim has borrowed from, a transporter accident where Kirk is split into the two side of his personality, the good conscious side and his Id if you will or the dark side.. Turns out he needed both to be what he is and survive/

100% agree with all of this.

Thing is, the "Sheila Gambit" didn't work, and then "Lash" didn't work either -- in fact, Lash turned against Lasciel!

So the Shadow retreated, to try again.  This time, working longer with Id!Harry... staying even further "in the shadows."  Not even giving him the brimstone... until revealed by Angelic action.

[Mira]

So the Shadow retreated, to try again.  This time, working longer with Id!Harry... staying even further "in the shadows."  Not even giving him the brimstone... until revealed by Angelic action.

That all sounds good, except the coin has moved on.. Hannah Asher accepted it and carried it.. Harry rejected it, If what you say is possible, you could say since he did accept and carried a coin for some time before rejecting it that Sanya still has remnants of his coin's shadow buried with in his Id as well. 

[Regenbogen]

That all sounds good, except the coin has moved on.. Hannah Asher accepted it and carried it.. Harry rejected it, If what you say is possible, you could say since he did accept and carried a coin for some time before rejecting it that Sanya still has remnants of his coin's shadow buried with in his Id as well.

Maybe Sanya has a shadow, maybe he hasn't. Who knows. Could be, there never was a shadow within Sanya's head, because he had actually taken up the coin. He had the real deal.

I remember there have been discussions about whether one Fallen could project multiple shadows in people, who have touched their coin. I think the shadow is supposed to make the host take up the coin, that is it's only purpose. It is not supposed to not succeed.

I have always refused to believe that Lash is completely gone. The part of Harry's brain got damaged, when she protected him. But a wizard heals. I think, his brain could be healed now. So would be what was left of Lash.

[Mira]

Maybe Sanya has a shadow, maybe he hasn't. Who knows. Could be, there never was a shadow within Sanya's head, because he had actually taken up the coin. He had the real deal.

Yes, and Harry's Shadow was also the real deal, they both rejected it... I think we have to return to the borrowed idea about the darkside of the Force.. Even Knights are subject to the temptation if they are emotionally stirred up enough as Harry was, even Michael.. I bet if Harry hadn't stopped him from smacking Douglas with that baseball bat, the smell of brimstone may have also been present from Michael.. The bigger point is Harry did stop and was ashamed that he had lost it..  He got the warning and didn't proceed to do evil once he came to his senses.  Even if you can prove the Shadow is still there, it didn't win..

[g33k]

That all sounds good, except the coin has moved on.. Hannah Asher accepted it and carried it.. Harry rejected it, If what you say is possible, you could say since he did accept and carried a coin for some time before rejecting it that Sanya still has remnants of his coin's shadow buried with in his Id as well.

The coin has moved on.  But once the imprint is placed in the psyche, the Shadow is separate from the Coin... a Denarius and its Fallen can (presumably) change hands/Hosts multiple times, without impact upon a Shadow.

Maybe Sanya has a shadow, maybe he hasn't. Who knows. Could be, there never was a shadow within Sanya's head, because he had actually taken up the coin. He had the real deal.

When you want to talk "unreliable narrator," you have got to include some mention of the Fallen and their Shadows... they're worse than the fae because they can (will!) intentionally-mislead you without any outright lies, but they're also free to lie however they want.

That said... Lasciel's Shadow was quite consistent that when Harry took up the coin, her being would be "re-absorbed" into the Fallen Angel, and cease to be.  Presumably (if she was telling the truth (and if she actually knew the truth, because the Fallen Angel could well have lied to her own Shadow!)), the same would be true of Sanya -- if he ever had a Shadow, it would have returned to the Fallen when he fully-accepted the Denarius.  Once he rejected the coin, he was fully-free, and un-Shadowed.

Unless, of course, the Fallen & their Shadows have been lying about this.
 

[g33k]

... I remember there have been discussions about whether one Fallen could project multiple shadows in people, who have touched their coin ...

I'm in the camp of "a Fallen can imprint as many Shadows as it wants, as often as it finds suitable subjects."  It's like sealing-wax and the actual Seal -- the item that imprints onto the wax.  There is no limit to the number of wax-sealed documents a single Seal can imprint.

I think that's part of the reason the Church cannot keep hold of the Coins -- every Fallen has a "harem" of a few dozen Shadowed, any of whom can summon the Fallen out of any hidey-hole or Warding that the Church can devise.  If the Fallen is already in a Host that it's happy with, it doesn't have to answer the summons... but if it's feeling confined by the white-hankie-and-cross-covered-box habitat, off it goes!

This "harem" would be mostly random & ordinary-seeming people.  The Shadows they host mainly advise them in how to be successful in whatever ordinary things they are doing; but also helps them pursue whatever low-grade sins & peccadillo's will "fly under the radar" (but still satisfy their cravings).  Namshiel probably likes low-grade magic types to host his shadows, but includes enough others to stay unpredictable; similarly for Lasciel & libidinous people, etc.

Any time the Fallen gets freed from Church constraints, I WAG, the Fallen "rewards" their Host by staying with them for with a year or two, giving them extra power-up & and fulfilling various ambitions/fantasies.