Did I miss something...?

[Mira]

Whilst Nicky and the Denarians are running around noisily trying to bring on the armageddon, what is Lucifer up to? Perhaps he is running his own team of hand picked operatives trying to supplant the White God. We have confirmation of Lucifer impacting upon Dresden twice, he is definitely keeping a light hand because every time he directly intervenes Uriel cock blocks him. The Denarians allow for indirect intervention but they face off against the Knights a stalemate.

If I were Lucifer I would set up a body of mortal or near mortal beings of power able to use their lovely free will to do my bidding without incurring either Uriel or the Knights intervention. What does THAT sound like. Everyone keeps an eye out for Nicky and ignores Cowl altogether.

I thought Lucifer did that, they are called Denarians and their servants...

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Denarians are the 30 Fallen Lucifer LEAST trusted, or I suspect the 27-28 he least trusted and 1-3 most trusted. So he told them to raise hell in the mortal world  and kept them out of his hair. Meanwhile he personally handpicks competent people like Cowl, Listen etc, he trusts to carry out his actual plan to undermine and replace the White God.

It’s how you make people you don’t trust still useful, as useful idiots. Nicky will not like that. Nor will Anduriel unless he is in on it.

[Mira]

The Denarians are the 30 Fallen Lucifer LEAST trusted, or I suspect the 27-28 he least trusted and 1-3 most trusted. So he told them to raise hell in the mortal world  and kept them out of his hair. Meanwhile he personally handpicks competent people like Cowl, Listen etc, he trusts to carry out his actual plan to undermine and replace the White God.

It’s how you make people you don’t trust still useful, as useful idiots. Nicky will not like that. Nor will Anduriel unless he is in on it.

Is there a WOJ about that?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Brought up by someone else on another thread.

[Yuillegan]

What in the heck is Harry talking about here?  This is from BG, when Ethniu let loose with the eye on the northside.

"The world gasped and went scarlet again, red light flooding through the haze of war. The air screamed with unnatural power as the Eye of Baylor unleashed raw destruction upon the city, and my heart took a terrified flutter.  I had only once before witnessed destructive power on that order of magnitude, and that had been at the will of the Fallen Angel himself - and even then it had been carefully constrained, user for a purpose."

When did Harry witness the power of Lucifer?  Or am I misreading who he's talking about?  I don't think any of the nickelheads have shown anything like the power of the Eye.

Two points on this.

1) What Harry is referring to is the Signs he witnesses (and the aftermath) in Small Favor. The Signs are large pentagrams of Hellfire that were set up by the Denarians but the power comes from Hell. At the time, Harry assumes Lucifer is doing it.

2) WOJ is that it actually wasn't Lucifer providing the power, but more like one of his lieutenants. The way he said it (in context to the question) made me feel like Jim was trying to hint something.

Harry, as he is often, is a poor narrator. We often get unreliable information because we only get Harry's very limited perspective. So it's hard to sort out the mess. My general rule is I assume it's true unless something suggests otherwise. That's obviously difficult but I feel the WOJ is quite clear in that Harry is mistaken.

Is there a WOJ about that?

Yeah it's an old one. I'll find it for you.

[morriswalters]

How many archangels in hell?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

You mean Nicky is dealing with middle management and not the top man himself. Poor Nicky. The paperwork must kill him.

[Ed0517]

How many archangels in hell?

Still might only be one. There are levels of angels - a Cherubim might not have the power of a Seraphim, for example. Harry had never seen an archangel's power at that time - he may have thought since he had seen SOME angels, and it was beyond them, it had to be an archangel, right? Be like a European in Africa long ago. He's seen bison, and bulls, and horses. Then he sees a rhino. "I just saw the biggest animal in the WORLD!" A week later, he sees the elephant....

[Yuillegan]

How many archangels in hell?

Just the one as far as we know. There are only five in the Dresden Files (Michael, Rafael, Gabriel, Uriel, and Lucifer).

My guess is there is a reason Lucifer didn't personally power those Signs in Small Favor. Perhaps that would have allowed direct response from another Archangel. Perhaps Lucifer can't unload his power like that.

Still might only be one. There are levels of angels - a Cherubim might not have the power of a Seraphim, for example. Harry had never seen an archangel's power at that time - he may have thought since he had seen SOME angels, and it was beyond them, it had to be an archangel, right? Be like a European in Africa long ago. He's seen bison, and bulls, and horses. Then he sees a rhino. "I just saw the biggest animal in the WORLD!" A week later, he sees the elephant....

I think that's effectively right. Harry is still fairly ignorant of a lot of things, but that's only because of his lack of experience. He can only use the information he has, but he hasn't had anywhere near enough exposure.

[morriswalters]

Just the one as far as we know. There are only five in the Dresden Files (Michael, Rafael, Gabriel, Uriel, and Lucifer).

Then Jim isn't reading what he writes

“Oh,” he said. “Can an old man offer you one more thought?”

“Sure,” I said, without turning around.

“You gotta think that maybe there’s a matter of balance, here,” he said. “Maybe one archangel invested his strength in this situation overtly and immediately. Maybe another one was just quieter about it. Thinking long-term. Maybe he already gave you a hand.”

My right hand erupted into pins and needles again.

Can that be read another way?

[vincentric]

I read it as Lucifer acted overtly and Uriel quietly. What are you getting from it?

[morriswalters]

Yuillegan's last two posts.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

If Lucifer acts overtly or covertly Uriel is empowered to act, but Uriel can choose the manner and time of that help.

Lucifer expended enormous energy in creating the spell which captured the Archive. Gifting Harry with Soulfire is seen to match that enormous expenditure. However that use of Soulfire  is over time, is still paying back and will to the future. Harry used only the smallest part in rescuing Ivy, and yet Harry still prevailed, and still has access to Soulfire, which is why Harry is now a target of Lucifer. Lucifer made a mistake and Uriel exploited it in a fashion which is ultimately going to cost Lucifer going forwards far more than his own actions obtained any benefit.

Harry as a Starborn may have been a legitimate mortal force multiplier for Uriel to play giving back 100 times or more the initial investment. So far it has resulted the saving of the Archive, the extinction of the Red Court, the capture of the Titan and strengthening of the Accords. A whole list of unintended consequences. If Harry is turned Lucifer gets that force multiplier going forward. Not worked so far.

[Ed0517]

If Lucifer acts overtly or covertly Uriel is empowered to act, but Uriel can choose the manner and time of that help.


Harry as a Starborn may have been a legitimate mortal force multiplier for Uriel to play giving back 100 times or more the initial investment. So far it has resulted the saving of the Archive, the extinction of the Red Court, the capture of the Titan and strengthening of the Accords. A whole list of unintended consequences.

You ASSUME unintended consequences. Could be Uriel is smarter than we are... I would expect an archangel to be. Not omniscient, but pretty darn smart.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Unintended consequences for Lucifer, he appears to have a blindspot for such, otherwise he wouldn’t be where he is.

Uriel seems to genuinely play the long game and has an immense amount of his time invested in Harry, lending Michael his grace was incredibly risky but succeeded, the first instalment on that risk was the use of the Spear by Harry to bind Ethnui, save the day and bolster the Accords (everyone is going to be like Finland and Sweden now, I suspect the Tuathan and several of the other Wild Fae Kingdoms will now join). With Harry leading the charge to drop the masquerade between the human and supernatural worlds definitely part of Uriels agenda.

Uriel expects Harry to act like Harry, only now with Soulfire and the Superweapons.