Author Topic: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?  (Read 7285 times)

Offline Mr. Mouse

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« on: April 13, 2022, 08:12:27 PM »
Listening to Battleground this week I was struck by a "how twisty a twist can Jim twist" thought:  What if the White Council isn't afraid of Harry? What if the Senior Council has been trying to manipulate him via the series of threats they've posed toward him all these years. This would be a more extended version of what He Who Walks Behind did when Harry ran away from Justin. He pretended to be there to kill Harry, but only went at it with a fraction of effort. The Walker's purpose was to scare Harry, test him, and evaluate whether he had what it took for the contest to come in the BAT. Similarly, elements of the Council have been trying to keep Harry off balance with the Doom of Damocles, the threat to hand him over to the Red Court for execution, drafting him into the wardens against his will, placing him again under the Doom of Damocles with Molly, threatening to expel him, and finally expelling him right after he binds a Titan. They've been trying to forge him into their weapon/champion in an abusive manner reminiscent of Justin. The question then becomes how successful they'll be seen to have been at that.

Just a thought.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2022, 06:01:50 AM »
We have independent verification from Cowl that the Wardens were afraid of Harry.

Morgan was afraid that Harry was a Destroyer, but how widely his Starborn status was known is debatable.

Mostly he was seen set a bad example to members of the White Council, advertising as a wizard.

They are certainly afraid of Harry now, they saw his control over the Sprites and they suspect he has the Eye of Baylor. They didn’t know about the super weapons, Amorachius or Bob, that he had picked up a Denarius, or half a dozen other things.

Offline Mr. Mouse

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2022, 03:15:14 PM »
I don't know why I should take anything Cowl says as true. We see how well taking what even allies like Justine says as true has worked.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2022, 04:40:29 PM »
Looking back at the attack by the Walker on teenage Harry, it  was probably a test to see if he was indeed a Starborn. On Cowl's pronouncement in Dead Beat, it doesn't matter.  You can fear a thing and use it. And fear is a useful tool for crowd control.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2022, 12:01:32 PM »
I don't know why I should take anything Cowl says as true. We see how well taking what even allies like Justine says as true has worked.

Cowl has no need to lie in his mind, Harry (and everyone else) are beneath him, and he has completely obscured his identity. However I wonder if Mouse could identify him by scent?

Offline RobReece

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 792
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2022, 04:26:46 PM »
I'm trying to think when Mouse would have had access to Cowl's scent...
In DB, Cowl was outside in the rain with Harry and Kumori went in to get Bob... while Butters was "taking cover" with Mouse. 
Mouse was at the museum, but is left out of the narrative after that, I don't remember him going to the college...
I don't think there was any opportunity there for Mouse to get his scent, was there any other time that mouse and Cowl were in the same location?
Mouse wasn't with the rescue team in WN at the battle in the Deeps...

Offline Mr. Mouse

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2022, 05:52:37 PM »
Cowl has no need to lie in his mind, Harry (and everyone else) are beneath him, and he has completely obscured his identity. However I wonder if Mouse could identify him by scent?

Everybody mortal is beneath a Walker, too, but still He Who Walks Beside works through deceit and manipulation while possessing Justine. Heck, obscuring one's identity is lying to others about who you are. If he has no need to lie he has no need to hide his face.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24359
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2022, 05:53:07 PM »
I'm trying to think when Mouse would have had access to Cowl's scent...
In DB, Cowl was outside in the rain with Harry and Kumori went in to get Bob... while Butters was "taking cover" with Mouse. 
Mouse was at the museum, but is left out of the narrative after that, I don't remember him going to the college...
I don't think there was any opportunity there for Mouse to get his scent, was there any other time that mouse and Cowl were in the same location?
Mouse wasn't with the rescue team in WN at the battle in the Deeps...

I don't think that Mouse would need Cowl's scent per-say, all he'd need is the scent of Cowl's intentions, and an ordinary dog can figure that out, so put it on steroids for a Foo Dog.. He'd simply pick him out of a crowd by scent that he is a bad guy and let Harry know.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2022, 06:27:10 PM »
Mouse may have met Cowl’s alter ego already, remember he gave evidence to the White Council, in a future meeting he can identify who Cowl is if on the White Council.

Jim may be setting us up for a Scooby Doo reveal on Cowl.

With Harry as Shaggy.

This would suggest Cowl is Old Man Jenkins.

Offline Snark Knight

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3933
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2022, 05:50:01 PM »
I'm trying to think when Mouse would have had access to Cowl's scent...
In DB, Cowl was outside in the rain with Harry and Kumori went in to get Bob... while Butters was "taking cover" with Mouse. 
Mouse was at the museum, but is left out of the narrative after that, I don't remember him going to the college...
I don't think there was any opportunity there for Mouse to get his scent, was there any other time that mouse and Cowl were in the same location?
Mouse wasn't with the rescue team in WN at the battle in the Deeps...

It was heavily alluded in the zoo short story segment from Mouse' POV that Cowl and Kumori were the ones who stole the litter of foo puppies from the monastery in the first place.

I've been trying to get "would Mouse still recognize them by scent and hold a grudge?" into an AMA since then, mainly because his lack of hostility toward Elaine in WN might exonerate her if so.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24359
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2022, 08:06:35 PM »
It was heavily alluded in the zoo short story segment from Mouse' POV that Cowl and Kumori were the ones who stole the litter of foo puppies from the monastery in the first place.

I've been trying to get "would Mouse still recognize them by scent and hold a grudge?" into an AMA since then, mainly because his lack of hostility toward Elaine in WN might exonerate her if so.

I think Mouse would remember very well if Cowl stole him and his brothers and sisters and I doubt he will be forgiving.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2022, 09:19:34 PM »
They were certainly behind it, but they most likely used intermediaries for the dog napping, coming off all Cruella de Ville is a bit below a man who aspires to be a god.

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2376
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2022, 08:17:45 PM »
We have independent verification from Cowl that the Wardens were afraid of Harry.
We don't have any great reason to trust Cowl, however!  Unless you subscribe to the "Cowl is secretly Future!Harry" theory (it's one of my favorites, tbh).  I suspect, though, that it's true... the Wardens were (and are!) afraid of Harry.

Even if that was 100% accurate... the wardens aren't Senior Council.  Policy stuff the Council does overarching strategies, etc) isn't known to them.  They are just tools (ba-dum-tssss).
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 03:32:33 AM by g33k »

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2376
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2022, 08:23:58 PM »
... This would be a more extended version of what He Who Walks Behind did when Harry ran away from Justin. He pretended to be there to kill Harry, but only went at it with a fraction of effort. The Walker's purpose was to scare Harry, test him, and evaluate whether he had what it took ...

I know this is a popular theory, but... has it been WoJ'ed?

Because in the Raith Deeps, in those few (accelerated) seconds when Lash joined Team Dresden, she claimed that it WAS significant that Harry had defeated HWWB:  not some fake-out or mere "test" on the Outsiders' part.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Is the White Council afraid of Harry Dresden?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2022, 09:24:22 PM »
The White Council shouldn’t know about the Walker, they think that it was a wizards dual between a fully trained former warden and an apprentice which the apprentice won.

The White Council though never seemed to address why they had no record of Justin taking on Harry as an apprentice. They merely seem to accept he was Justin’s apprentice.