Author Topic: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp  (Read 25392 times)

Offline HeWhoSucksAtWalking

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
I mean he was pretty much paste after that . I understand that he has one of the strongest fallen at his back but Jesus.

And another couple notes --- Will he think he will hold a grudge against Nic for leaving him there ? And I thought that only humans can get the coins ? I figure BOHS is a distant relative of humans but it still threw me for aloop. Can't wait for Book 20 to get more Denarion action and answer some of these questions.

Offline vincentric

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 582
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2022, 04:53:03 AM »
Well, they are human enough to breed with humans.( hence River's son) So that could be enough for a coin merger.

Surviving the ice grinders will need some explaining though. Maybe Jim just wasn't done with the character's plot arc.

Offline Ed0517

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 610
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2022, 05:10:22 AM »
Well, they are human enough to breed with humans.( hence River's son) So that could be enough for a coin merger.

Surviving the ice grinders will need some explaining though. Maybe Jim just wasn't done with the character's plot arc.

Especially because Rivers himself seems at a loss - so it is not a typical Forest People move

Offline HeWhoSucksAtWalking

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2022, 05:12:00 AM »
Well, they are human enough to breed with humans.( hence River's son) So that could be enough for a coin merger.

Surviving the ice grinders will need some explaining though. Maybe Jim just wasn't done with the character's plot arc.
Any chance it gets lured to the island and locked up? I don't see how Harry can beat the beast head to head : although that's been a recurring theme throughout the series. Dresden taking on things above his weight class and always coming through. Well except Shagnasty.

Another interesting question is if he survived then did Hannah and Lash? Think so

Offline HeWhoSucksAtWalking

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2022, 05:25:03 AM »
Especially because Rivers himself seems at a loss - so it is not a typical Forest People move
I assume Urseil revived him after a few but then how the hell did he linger long enough to heal then escape
Greek Hell? So many questions

Offline Ed0517

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 610
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2022, 05:36:43 AM »
Any chance it gets lured to the island and locked up? I don't see how Harry can beat the beast head to head : although that's been a recurring theme throughout the series. Dresden taking on things above his weight class and always coming through. Well except Shagnasty.

Another interesting question is if he survived then did Hannah and Lash? Think so

Well, LASCIEL will - she just projects to the body thru the Coin... Ursiel gets killed by Michael early on, decapitated IIRC, and HE comes back. Rasmussen, the host, is the one who goes. The Denarians could well move a few tons of rick and pick up Lasciel's Coin from Ascher's dead body, though they may have ways to summon the coin too (I know Lash said she could tell Harry how, but that might be different, as she was already in his head)

Offline HeWhoSucksAtWalking

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2022, 05:50:33 AM »
Well, LASCIEL will - she just projects to the body thru the Coin... Ursiel gets killed by Michael early on, decapitated IIRC, and HE comes back. Rasmussen, the host, is the one who goes. The Denarians could well move a few tons of rick and pick up Lasciel's Coin from Ascher's dead body, though they may have ways to summon the coin too (I know Lash said she could tell Harry how, but that might be different, as she was already in his head)
So you think there's absolutely no way that Hannah lived,? Maybe the monkey and her helped each other escape. I mean they were both fataly injured not to mention they had to dodge and defend against The residents of Hades..they could've team up.. maybe the monkey needed Hannah to open viel and protected her til they got out . I mean cmon. If he healed himself quick ,( still don't see friggin how!) Then he could've gotten her out of that rubble. Then the two of them team up and escape Hades. Though I think he probably would've needed Asher to open a way..He's strong but I'm not sure if subtly magic is his forte.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 05:52:25 AM by HeWhoSucksAtWalking »

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24362
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2022, 10:45:35 AM »


  I agree, we've seen over and over again, the host body dies, the coin just drops away to be picked up by another.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2022, 05:36:43 PM »
This has to be a Mirror Mirror plot point.  This isn't the same Blood On His Soul.  The only way out or in from Hades Realm was through the vault.  Otherwise Skin Game is a lie.

I really hate this type of thing. I don't watch the Marvel movies because of this. Somebody dies? Bring them in from an alternate universe. It's cheap and lazy.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2022, 05:40:28 PM »
The Forest People have a massive lifeforce and healing factor. On top of that The Denarians are also granted a healing factor by the coin. Whilst what happened to Blood would have overwhelmed the healing factor of a Human Denarian host (and Marcone’s  neck got unbroken, so that is fairly significant) with stacked healing factors it may be that pure physical force cannot kill Blood, it can merely delay him.

That means that he is going to have to be beaten by a subtle or metaphysical force. The Swords especially that of Faith can probably still kill him. Harry using Soulfire  might be able to depending on the type of attack. Force and fire are out they are easily deflected by Blood. If Harry were to replicate Carlos disintegration attack reinforced by Soulfire for example it would surprise Blood and take him apart at the molecular level separating him from his coin. I note in Battle Ground Harry spent time in the middle of a battle considering how that worked, so he is going to both use it and create a defence to it.

Offline forumghost

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2729
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2022, 05:19:59 AM »
I mean it's pretty well established that not much can kill a Denarian as long as they have their coin. There wasn't much of Tessa left after her failed ambush on Harry and Gard in Marcone's safehouse, but she just shrugged it off.

And BOHS had a much higher starting point then Tessa.

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1384
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2022, 05:52:24 AM »
It did surprise me to learn that not only did the Genoskwa survive, but was able to actually leave Hades' Underworld.

Then again, Denarians have shown high levels of recovery in some circumstances, and Ursiel is about as tough a Fallen as they come. Coupled with the Genoskwa's own toughness (and likely ability to heal), plus whatever other Denarian tricks (like speeding up the mind) I can see how Blood-on-his-Soul survived.

The only way I can see Ursiel and BohS escaping is through a deal with Hades himself, either negotiated directly or perhaps Hell (as in Lucifer's domain) intervened. Maybe a trade, or even a jailbreak (although the latter seems less likely).

As Morris points out, there are essentially only a few ways out i.e. the main gate guarded by Cerberus (and you have to cross the River Styx, pay the ferryman etc). Or the backdoor entrance that Dresden had opened, which is harder (if not impossible) to open from the inside. I don't know if either seems likely.

Of course, the Black Council might have had something to do with it. They seem to have all kinds of tricks up their sleeves.

To answer the other OP questions:
1) I doubt Ursiel will care that they were left behind, but the Genoskwa is fairly emotional and might be upset. However, the source of their rage will of course be Dresden so he will receive the brunt of it.

2) Any mortal is corruptible i.e. it doesn't matter the species or race provided they have a soul and free will. Most don't have one let alone both. Therefore, there are many mortal races beyond just humans that could also take up coins. For instance, a White Court Vampire (this scenario has been put to Jim and he said the Fallen would easily outmatch the Hunger, no contest really). Changellings, some Scions (i.e. half-mortal half-supernatural creatures), Forrest People, Wolf People (like in the comic), Tera West's species (wolves that can turn into humans), etc. There are probably many I have left out or forgotten. It's the mortality thing that's key. I will say most animals probably are not susceptible (otherwise Ursiel might just pick a bear), probably because while mortal most (if not all) do not have souls or free will.
Hi, I'm a moderator. We're here to help. Please remain calm. Don't go outdoors.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24362
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2022, 03:24:12 PM »
Quote
Then again, Denarians have shown high levels of recovery in some circumstances, and Ursiel is about as tough a Fallen as they come. Coupled with the Genoskwa's own toughness (and likely ability to heal), plus whatever other Denarian tricks (like speeding up the mind) I can see how Blood-on-his-Soul survived.


 This true, but dead is dead, and if the host is killed the coin rolls away.  Unless it is retrieved by a Holy Knight for "safe keeping," Nic or another Denarian will pick it up to tempt the next suitable host.

So Ursiel, himself cannot be killed, he lives in his coin, but his host can be squished to death.. So wouldn't be shocked to see Ursiel again, but he will have a different body.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2022, 04:45:44 PM »
If you never see it coming how fast you think will have nothing to do with it. 

The first quote is about opening a way in the realm. 
Quote
Once or twice in my life, I’d been able to open a Way in front of me, fast enough to divert an incoming attack away from me, into the Nevernever or out into somewhere else in the mortal world. But from here, in the secured vault, there was no way I was going to be able to open a Way—not until I got back out beyond the first gate again.

Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 385). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
The second about how much warning they had when the ice block crushed them.
Quote
But neither the Genoskwa nor the Fallen angel sensed what was plummeting soundlessly toward them. A block of ice the size of a building came down like the hammer of God Almighty, and crushed the Genoskwa like a beer can.

Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 399). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2022, 05:06:04 PM »
Hades obviously let Blood go in exchange for his coin, he is a collector after all and had Lasciel’s sans host, he wanted Ursiel’s in mint condition (of course). It was the only thing he had to trade, other than body odour, and he gave that away for free. Blood is from a long lived race, and the coin made him effectively immortal Hades patience would thus be tried, and from his point of view Hades gets to keep the important being in his safekeeping.

Hades probably considered the coins payment for the diamonds (he was only looking after super weapons until a mortal custodian turned up)

Somewhere in Hades domain there is now a display case with 28 vacant slots, and that will worry the ultimate completist. Odin has better not owe Hades anything, otherwise Marcone might get a three way trade for Namshiel getting the Kringle Mantle in return for becoming a Faerie Godfather, and there only being 27 slots. Hades is a customer of Marcone’s after all.

Let’s face it the next time Harry comes into a little spare change he could do worse than sell the coins to hades for half a backpack of diamonds each.

Even without a coin Blood is a formidable opponent.