Demonreach's spells and Turn Coat

[seanham]

I am currently re-reading Turn Coat, and I came across a very interesting line when the Naagloshii encountered the spells around the cottage and tower (page 447 of the paperback)

It fell back from the tower, clearly frustrated, and just as clearly familiar with the symbols that allowed the stones to shed the power of the skinwalker as swiftly and as easily as they shed rainwater.

This appears to say that Shagnasty has seen spells like this before, AKA Merlin's work. So where else could he have seen this work? We know that the Naagloshii are based in the American Southwest, and typically Merlin lore comes out of Europe, so did Merlin do more spell work in America, or did the Naagloshii travel across the pond to Europe sometime. Also, any ideas what else would require this complex level of spell work to be laid down?

[Mira]

  I'd say because it's siblings and perhaps itself had been on the island before, perhaps in an attempt to free it's siblings or others from jail.  It may have been when it's siblings were captured by the Warden of that time, and put in the "minimum" security prison as POWs perhaps?  And maybe just a wild guess, the so called "British Prisoner," also dates back to that time?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The only other in universe example of similar spellwork is actually Castle Dresden. Perhaps the Naagloshii visited Scotland?. Is there anything in Scottish myth like Shagnasty? The Naagloshii eat the magic of wizards, maybe Shagnasty tried this with one of the former residents of the castle in Scotland and was kept locked outside until he returned to his traditional grounds.

[Mira]

The only other in universe example of similar spellwork is actually Castle Dresden. Perhaps the Naagloshii visited Scotland?. Is there anything in Scottish myth like Shagnasty? The Naagloshii eat the magic of wizards, maybe Shagnasty tried this with one of the former residents of the castle in Scotland and was kept locked outside until he returned to his traditional grounds.

I kind of doubt that, but if say a platoon of Naagloshii attacked the island, the Warden would bind them.. If the Naggloshii who fought Harry had been in on that fight and escaped, it would remember those runes.

[seanham]

I kind of doubt that, but if say a platoon of Naagloshii attacked the island, the Warden would bind them.. If the Naggloshii who fought Harry had been in on that fight and escaped, it would remember those runes.

That may be true but why would Shagnasty return to the island that has his people imprisoned? If there was a platoon of Naggloshii that tried to break into Demonreach and Shagnasty was the only one (or one of the few) who returned he would know where the island is and that it posed a real danger to him. I really don't see Shagnasty doing research or knowing in advance that Harry was new to being the Warden, thus not having the knowledge of imprisoning him.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Full Naagloshii are on par with angels, if so they may have existed before linear time like many of the big players. He may also be able to timetravel.

In either scenario Shagnasty is not remembering something from his past, he is remembering something from the future (relative to Harry) and his next showdown on the island with Harry, his first and Harry’s second, or alternatively a future attack on Castle Dresden which actually seems more likely. He wasn’t expecting the Spells on the island  and at that point in linear time the Castle didn’t exist in Chicago, which he would have avoided if he had had a previous run-in as the Castle.

Castle attack with Harry and Gargoyles versus Shagnasty would be nice, since their last to do Harry gained Soulfire and  the Winter Knight Mantle, making it less of a mismatch especially in the Castle.

[vincentric]

Harry already had Soulfire in Turn Coat. He charged up his lasso/noose with it and Shagnasty even asked him about it.

[Mira]

Harry already had Soulfire in Turn Coat. He charged up his lasso/noose with it and Shagnasty even asked him about it.

Yes, though I'd argue that beyond what Bob had told him and the boost it gave some of his spells, Harry didn't begin to understand the nature of Soul Fire till his tussle with Mother Winter in Cold Days, but I digress.

Anyway, as pointed out  Shagnasty and it's kin have been around since the beginning of time, so
it just stands to reason that it would have run into runes of that kind in the past and their effects.

[Snark Knight]

Merlin might have travelled more widely in the Americas than just the Great Lakes area to set up the prison on the island, and European legends about him just didn't record it. He was clearly a lot more influential and around a lot longer in the DV than just the "advisor to King Arthur" that the real world legends have him as.

Or, it might have familiarity with the runes through a third party. Vadderung was supposedly a mentor to Merlin, and I'd be 0% surprised if he'd tangled with them at some point. And wasn't there supposed to be some sort of connection between the island's runic alphabet and the Hecatean Hags from the comic? Maybe it had dealings and was frustrated to be countered by something similar to their alphabet.

[seanham]

I like the Odin thought. I also wouldn't be surprised if Odin fought the Naagloshii before, even if it wasn't Odin, maybe another one of Merlin's students. At the end of Battle Ground(?), it talks about how the Castle's defenses were very similar to those on Demonreach, so maybe one of Merlin's apprentices went to the Americas, and Shagnasty encountered some of their work sometime.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Perhaps Naagloshii have limited collective memory as a form of Intellectus, and one of the inmates originally saw the runes. We are getting more limited forms of Intellectus, in Battle Ground alone we got the Knights Banner, and the Valkyries catalogue, so a collective memory of harmful things would be useful. All Naagloshii would therefore be forewarned of what one of their kind found harmful, like following Donald Morgan out of the Never Never into an apparently innocuous desert. Naagloshii learn not only from their mistakes, they learn from all the mistakes everyone of their kind make. That would make them badass, it also means you can never repeat the same trick on any Naagloshii, like you could with a different Blamp, or Fae. Morgan’s trick could not be repeated on any Naagloshii.

Obviously half human scions don’t have this, and this may be a blind spot, an absence in their power set which makes them vulnerable, otherwise Goodman Grey wouldn’t have been hired a second time by Harry Dresden.

[seanham]

Perhaps Naagloshii have limited collective memory as a form of Intellectus, and one of the inmates originally saw the runes.

Hmm, that's interesting. However, if that were true wouldn't Shagnasty have known how to counter LTW magic? The Native American shamans had a method of dealing naagloshii so I would assume they have natural weaknesses that LTW took advantage of.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Maybe they haven’t been able to develop a counter other than run away, which is what happened, as with the runes if you can’t counter it, avoid it.

Perhaps the counter would have been to ‘eat’ LTTW and gain the ability.

[Mira]

Maybe they haven’t been able to develop a counter other than run away, which is what happened, as with the runes if you can’t counter it, avoid it.

Perhaps the counter would have been to ‘eat’ LTTW and gain the ability.

Of course, the runes were written by the great Wizard Tim!  Shaggy also knew there was a killer rabbit lying in wait for him... So what else was he to do?  RUN AWAY!!!! 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Of course, the runes were written by the great Wizard Tim!  Shaggy also knew there was a killer rabbit lying in wait for him... So what else was he to do?  RUN AWAY!!!! 

Perhaps Shaggy had seen Night of the Lepus, and it gave him nightmares?