Star Born (direct quotes compilation)

[Conspiracy Theorist]

WOJ that Odin has Soulfire and that it is used to bring back Einenjharen fairly recent as well from one of the interviews post Peace Talks. I think it was dropped in anticipation of Murphy’s fate, that she is coming back courtesy of the power of the White God rather than just Odin, to make the Murphy non-haters feel better about her death.

Soulfire is within the exclusive gift of the White God only Harry and Odin are known to have it, but Listens to the Wind recognised it, so he knows someone with it, my guess Martha Liberty, given her communication with the Loa in Battle Ground, this suggests Voodoo which has very heavy ties with Christianity. Most of the Senior Council have a hidden power up.

It’s definitely in story that Odin took on the Kringle Mantle for it’s immortality, and “to stay in the game”. Without it he wouldn’t have survived the Titan. Kringle’s Mantle should include St Nicholas, and between that and the Soulfire it explains Odin’s yearly lunch with Uriel, multiple ties to the White God and a good deal freer capacity to act than Uriel. It confirms Odin is part of the Uriel/Mab/Hades conspiracy in Skin Game, in retrospect it explains why Mab was so chill (of course) with Harry going to Vadderung/Odin he was already on the inside and had been all along. Harry may have subconsciously deduced this or had his foresight on.

[Yuillegan]

Just an observation.  Somebody was looking for special children and using the courts and other institutions to find them.  This has been a recurring theme in the books. Elaine was probably picked specifically because she was similar to Harry.

The White Council often seems like they wouldn't be much good navigating the mortal systems...but they clearly have the wealth to have multiple law firms on retainer. So they are one possibility (or at least someone who was White Council, particularly if they were younger i.e. Justin).

The Fae are supposed to be good at navigating the legal system - Mab herself according to Jim is a very capable attorney.

The White Court also have shown to be able to leverage the mortal systems to their advantage exceedingly better than most other supernatural nations. Given the White Court's association with Margaret La Fey, and their association with Outsiders/the Game, they also are excellent candidates.

Hard to say who it really was though.

  We don't know about Cowl, if it weren't for Bob, Harry, and Sue, he would have pulled off Darkhallow.. So is Cowl starborn?  What happened to him anyway? He hasn't been heard from since White Night and had given the impression of being a major player.

I think being blown half-way to Hell probably has kept him side-lined. Given his extreme likely hood of being Black Council or whatever, and how much they are behind the scenes movers, I'd say that's reason enough to not be seen. Although I do miss the character. The Doylist reason is probably that Jim just couldn't fit him in the other books, his character isn't needed for the story so far.

There is a certain level of Butcher being Butcher in all of this.  My mother could be Starborn for as much specificity as he gives. But obviously birth date isn't sufficient in and of itself. Where you are when you were born seems to be important. So the date is knowable but the location may not be and the only way to know is to test for it.  Or maybe Margaret figured it out.  Which might explain why Malcolm wasn't at the birth.

If you want to go all tin hat, the fight with Justin may have been that test.  Put Harry on the run and see what happens when he crosses paths with an Outsider. If he's Starborn he passes, if he isn't, he gets eaten. Easy Peasy and here is your guaranteed Genuine Starborn Certificate.

True enough, frustrating as it is. I think the location is extremely significant. And I would bet dollars to donuts that it's Chicago that's the place. No idea how much. But given that there were 40,000-50,000 star born I'd say it was anyone in that area. I'd assume it was night time. It's hard to imagine that many beings all rounded up and prepared but it's possible. Most rituals of some sort of blessing/transformation require a preparation of the thing being changed - so I expect Harry (and whoever else) might have been prepared earlier. The way Ebenezar puts it (and the number given) seem to suggest it's all those born in that area, at the right time. However. As we know being mortal isn't a requirement so obviously some beings are turned into star born after being "born" - perhaps long after that.

I think He Who Walks Behind was the one running the operation, not Justin from what I remember? I suspect the test was more about whether they could make Harry more of a monster - the hint from Lea about how it's so difficult to teach a young wizard to use magic to destroy as it's so delicate.

The difference between Vadderung and Drakul is the Kringle Mantle, which like the Queens renders him immortal not merely ageless and extremely difficult to kill, like for example the Redcap. Otherwise they would be on a equal footing. The other difference is that Odin has access to Soulfire and this is required to create Einenjharen, the only way it seems to safely resurrect the dead appears to be Soulfire (e.g. Jesus and Lazarus). Drakul’s son created the original  Black Court Vampires, perhaps in response, using Hellfire?

I am not so sure about that. I think Kringle is immortal but not Vadderung, and so being Kringle is what keep Vadderung ticking along. I think it's an important difference myself.

I think Odin got his Soulfire from doing a favor or several for Heaven. Drakul created the original Black Court Vampires, Dracula (Drakul's son) grew them into a Court and made them famous. But I do like symmetry of using Hellfire to create the Black Court. Although I would point out that Hellfire isn't a creative force...but maybe that doesn't matter. The other thing that can raise the dead (more than just ghosts) is Necromancy. It seems to be more of an aberration though. That said, apparently the Einherjaren are the result of Soulfire and Necromancy according to Jim.

Also, don't all angels have Soulfire? I believe Bob says that much. I am sure it's very rare to get Soulfire if you're not an Angel but I can imagine that more than Harry and Vadderung might have it, and I doubt they are the only two ever apart from Angels to get Soulfire.

[morriswalters]

Was Harry born in Chicago?

[Con]

Was Harry born in Chicago?

No he bounced around with his father till he was 6 then the system then Justin the ebenezaes farm. Hitching for a year or 2 before settling in Chicago.

As for vadderung. Kringle is what he does so as not to age power of belief of children each year sustains his immortality.

As for his use of Soulfire yeah woj from the Dresden FIles podcast. But it should be noted the naagloshii called it 'the fires of creation' so maybe not just exclusively the white God.

[Yuillegan]

It's never been stated where he was born...but considering Chicago is the centre of everything I would say it's more likely than not.

If you think about it in a Doylist sense working backwards, where else makes sense? Where else would you put 40,000 beings that is also significant to the series?

That rules out locations important only to Harry (e.g. Hog's Hollow or whatever). Harry's early years are very vague - we don't know where Margaret was when Harry was born (although likely this is kept secret for a reason). However, given that Lord Raith the White King was in Chicago with Margaret Le Fay (at one of the White Court's main locations at the Raith Chateau) - he even has a picture of her there, and her other son spent most (if not all his life in Chicago) - it seems more likely than not.

But I am open to other suggestions.

[Mira]

No he bounced around with his father till he was 6 then the system then Justin the ebenezaes farm. Hitching for a year or 2 before settling in Chicago.

As for vadderung. Kringle is what he does so as not to age power of belief of children each year sustains his immortality.

As for his use of Soulfire yeah woj from the Dresden FIles podcast. But it should be noted the naagloshii called it 'the fires of creation' so maybe not just exclusively the white God.

None of that means he wasn't born in Chicago. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

As everything revolves around Grave Peril, Harry was probably born in the maternity ward of Cook County Hospital Chicago, same as his namesake Little Harry.

Chicago had the Chicago Magic Round Table for most of the 20th Century and 21st it has the Magic Lounge, now so if anywhere is the mid-west has a enclave of professional magicians it was Chicago, likely Malcolm had an agent based there booking for him on the road while he travelled. Harry Blackstone Sr was a Member of the Chicago Magic Round Table. Hence if Malcolm settled anywhere for a time it would be Chicago, and Harry would be born in Cook County Hospital.

If Malcolm had an agent, then Malcolm’s professional kit, and his and Harry’s personal belongings would most likely have ended up with them. Is there a treasure trove of Dresden childhood memorabilia sitting in Malcolm’s former agent’s storage somewhere in Chicago? If so this explains where Kringle got the mug on Christmas Eve.

Imagine Harry finding his father’s professional kit, his old toys and books, and letters, photos and keepsakes of his mother his father kept. Christmas Eve x 1000. Elements of his own history.

All that incurious Harry has to do is figure out where Kringle got the Mug. He actually has something to use a locator spell on.

[Mira]

All that incurious Harry has to do is figure out where Kringle got the Mug. He actually has something to use a locator spell on.

I doubt it, Kringle got the mug and the coffee with the memories from Harry's head, or possibly directly from Malcolm via Uriel would be my guess.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The simplest explanation is the correct one.

Kringle probably does have the power to know the perfect gift, so he would know what Harry needed. Otherwise everybody would just get socks for Christmas.

The question how to get it is another matter (1) recreate ir perfectly so even Harry cannot tell the difference (2) retrieve it from the last point it existed.


(1) The mug appears to be actual matter and not composed of ectoplasm, so it isn’t a common conjuration like with conjouritis. That means putting in enough energy to create the matter from scratch and that is prohibitive see e=MC 2.

(2) Is a better fit for Kringle a master of time and space. He merely has to locate it to when it last existed. If it was destroyed when Harry was taken into care, then Kringle has to travel back in time to retrieve it, but that too requires an enormous amount of energy (according to Kringle) and runs the risk of upsetting spacetime which would not please Uriel. If however all of their belongings were saved and taken away by someone like Malcolms agent, it was still existing in storage and could be removed, a doddle for spacetimes B&E expert.

Malcolm is a spirit, and does not possess even the ghost of the Coffee mug, but does know it’s importance to Harry without invading his mind. He may have known what happened to his stuff as a spirit. He then tells Kringle about the Mug and where it is and Kringle gets it.

You have got to remember that Christmas Carol Eve is all about changing Harry for the better, and not about upsetting the Spacetime Continuum, Chicago had quite enough of that with the Titan.

[morriswalters]

It's never been stated where he was born...but considering Chicago is the centre of everything I would say it's more likely than not.

If you think about it in a Doylist sense working backwards, where else makes sense? Where else would you put 40,000 beings that is also significant to the series?

That rules out locations important only to Harry (e.g. Hog's Hollow or whatever). Harry's early years are very vague - we don't know where Margaret was when Harry was born (although likely this is kept secret for a reason). However, given that Lord Raith the White King was in Chicago with Margaret Le Fay (at one of the White Court's main locations at the Raith Chateau) - he even has a picture of her there, and her other son spent most (if not all his life in Chicago) - it seems more likely than not.

But I am open to other suggestions.

I keep looking for three wise men and the Star of Bethlehem. Just in case you haven't noticed the imagery.

[Mira]

(1) The mug appears to be actual matter and not composed of ectoplasm, so it isn’t a common conjuration like with conjouritis. That means putting in enough energy to create the matter from scratch and that is prohibitive see e=MC 2.

Gifts from Kringle or Santa are usually made of actual matter, not ectoplasm.  In the real world you are correct about creating matter from scratch, but this is the Dresdenverse..  It is also a gift from Santa, and a bit of a miracle, and as such all practical rules of the universe to out the window.

Malcolm is a spirit, and does not possess even the ghost of the Coffee mug, but does know it’s importance to Harry without invading his mind. He may have known what happened to his stuff as a spirit. He then tells Kringle about the Mug and where it is and Kringle gets it.

Doesn't matter, even as a spirit, Malcolm is Harry's loving father, and as loving parents everywhere if asked by Kringle, would know what would comfort Harry the most.  Especially when you consider how close they were in life, it was just father and son until his death. He tells Kringle and Kringle gets his elves to put it together to present to Harry on Christmas Eve.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Gifts from Kringle or Santa are usually made of actual matter, not ectoplasm.  In the real world you are correct about creating matter from scratch, but this is the Dresdenverse..  It is also a gift from Santa, and a bit of a miracle, and as such all practical rules of the universe to out the window.Doesn't matter, even as a spirit, Malcolm is Harry's loving father, and as loving parents everywhere if asked by Kringle, would know what would comfort Harry the most.  Especially when you consider how close they were in life, it was just father and son until his death. He tells Kringle and Kringle gets his elves to put it together to present to Harry on Christmas Eve.

Harry repeatedly states that magic has to obey certain physical laws such as thermodynamics, so to create matter, proper matter almost certainly follows them.

Kringle gets gifts which already exist, he wouldn’t for example dare create an Apple IPad, their lawyers would destroy him and even Mab isn’t that good a lawyer. He probably buys them or has them donated in exactly the same way Molly did for hers. Monoc Security probably is the source of the money, so Marcone as one of Monoc’s best customers is indirectly responsible  for so much goodwill and cheer to children (another argument for Marcone inheriting the Kringle Mantle, he is Kringle at one step removed already, the silent partner). Kringle only has to undertake a token amount of gift giving to ensure that he has the belief of children. If Christmas Carol Eve has shown us anything Kringle takes credit for the hard work and sweat of a good many dads.

Given Faerie contract rules, Odin probably ‘paid’ for the Mantle by underwriting the costs of the gifts that he has to provide under that Mantle. Such is the price of immortality.

[Yuillegan]

I keep looking for three wise men and the Star of Bethlehem. Just in case you haven't noticed the imagery.

Wizards are often known as "the Wise" as that's part of the meaning of the word, and are sometimes referred to as the three Magi, so I'd guess three wizards.

I suspect the OG Merlin may well have attended the birth of Christ (considering he is the superman of his world and seems to be involved in every other thing). No idea which other two - but Morgan La Fey seems like a distinct possibility. I know it's three wise men but Jim could do it however he likes. I can't think of two other famous wizards around that time.

As for the birth of Harry...Maggie was already there obviously. Ebenezar likely wasn't otherwise I think he could have protected her. I could see Justin being there for some strange reason. The third candidate stumps me a little. Cowl perhaps? Or someone of that order (assuming Justin and Cowl are not one and the same)?

I do think the Star of Bethlehem is highly significant. Some theories include it being a triple conjunction of Jupiter, Regulus, and Venus; Jupiter, the Moon, and Regulas; Halley's Comet; or a Nova in the Andromeda galaxy. Given the significance of conjunctions in the series one might think the first or second are most likely. However, we also know that falling stars are highly significant in Christian theology and the Dresden Files (i.e. things like Wormwood and stars falling from the sky respectively) which means there are probably good arguments to support the comet theory. The nova theory seems least likely (with respect to the Dresden Files) yet is most likely in real terms (as the Chinese recorded a nova around 4BC).

Curiously, I believe the JW's believe that the Star of Bethlehem was actually a sign of Satan rather than of God. This would line up with the whole 666 cycle for star borns in the Dresden Files.

The SDA's seem to believe that it was a distant choir of Angels but the wise-men were ignorant of this (the irony) - however I am not so sure that this would be the case in the Dresdenverse. Maybe an Archangel perhaps?

Another interesting thing is that the star is portrayed as a five-pointed star in some art works - similar to Harry's pentacle (without the circle obviously).

[Conspiracy Theorist]

You do realise Halley’s Comet is responsible for the orionids meteor shower, every year between 2 October and 7 November bracketing Harry’s birthday. Stars and Stones!

One of the more inauspicious appearances of Halley’s Comet was 1066, when Mab rode with Conqueror and broke up with her sister Titania.

Arthurian period is generally a couple of centuries after Christ, so no Arthurian characters there, however the White Council in its first form came into being in Roman times. Given the smaller population and greater issues as regards travel, Wizards would have had great problems ever meeting another wizard in their lives. What if the Magi were in fact the first iteration of the White Council? It was them who discovered how to travel the ways after meeting up, and comparing notes  and thus able to keep in touch and to contact other wizards?

Hecate was the Roman goddess of Magic, this is pre Faerie Courts whose domains run most closely to the mortal world. What if the formation of the courts also led to the formation of the proto White Council?

With Hecate pouring her power into the Mantles, the next god associated with teaching humanity magic is Odin. Wizard lifespans are such that Merlin and the Magi could just have overlapped in their old age and his youth, and were Merlin’s early teachers, soon outstripped by him requiring Odin to take part in his training.

This plays into the Arthurian Christianity and grail lore, providing a connection between that and the life of Christ.

In the Dresdenverse the quest for the Grail led to its recovery and its sequestering in Hades vault, part of the Mab/Odin/Hades/Uriel conspiracy which may date that far back (Hecate instead of Mab at this stage, but Mab inheriting the role with her Mantle).

The Greco Roman Gods were the defenders of the Gates before Winter, so the birth of Christ may have been the turnover point, requiring the formation of the Fairie Courts and with it eventually the White Council, Merlin and Demonreach. The Crucifixtion may have been ritual magic designed to create the Courts, the Mantles even Demonreach and changes to the NeverNever utilising the items in the Hades Vault. The closest example we have seen is the bloodline curse which wiped out the Red Court. Now imagine instead the son of the White God, a physical manifestation sacrificed to power the creation of the new defenders of the Outer Gates and the prison in the mortal world for those which would side with the Outsiders. Possible given Demonreach was built using time travel.

From Wikipedia the “Wandering Jew”
Medieval legend   
Some scholars have identified components of the legend of the Eternal Jew in Teutonic legends of the Eternal Hunter, some features of which are derived from Odin mythology.”

He gets about doesn’t he? It’s Odin who curses Christ setting up the ritual magic creating the Mantles, Courts and powering the creation of Demonreach which he passes off to his future protege Merlin to undertake. Odin gives up his godhood and takes the Kringle Mantle. Odin is supposed to die at Ragnarok, the Eternal Jew at the second coming. They may be the same thing from different perspectives.

The fact that the statues which are the physical manifestation of the Mantles are in the same vault as the crucifixion items suggests a connection between the two. It is no coincidence. The fact that the Warden is given custody of those items is no coincidence.

[morriswalters]

You realize that makes the WC the Pharisees.