Question of the day.

[morriswalters]

in absentia luci, tenebrae vincunt

[Dina]

Veritas 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Jim was probably told by his lecturer that physically out of norm characters should be avoided as this could lead to them becoming caricatures rather than characters, he dug his heels in and created  Harry and Murphy just to spite her. Remember the photo placed in Murphy’s Grave.

It’s just like he was told to avoid talking heads, characters whose sole purpose was exposition. So he created Bob.

We can talk genetics and nutrition and other factors, Harry’s size is most likely due to Jim being a perverse bugger making an extended joke at the expense of his lecturer which backfired upon him in a most spectacular fashion.

And continues to do so. Good luck with casting in live action, he’ll probably end up with Tom Cruise playing Harry.

[Mira]

True, nutrition is a very important factor, and, as Mira says, it complicates things.  In summary, I do not think we can extract a valid conclusion about the reason for Harry's height.

Agreed, without more information about both his paternal and maternal family trees it is hard to come to any valid conclusion.

[Ed0517]

Not necessarily. I don't remember the physical descriptions of Margaret and Malcolm. Perhaps they both were tall.

IIRC at one point Margaret's spirit looks at Harry and says he is tall like his father.

But you can get a sport - neither of Wilt Chamberlain's parents was even 6 feet tall, he was over 7. Michael Jordan has 4 brothers - none are even six feet, Michael is 6'6". Or, if you want someone close to Harry's size, look at the pop group the Beach Boys. Average sized guys. Brothers and a cousin. And a cousin is 6'8" Kevin Love, an NBA player. 

[Ed0517]

Was Malcolm a Scion of an Angel? Eb appears to have seen him under the sight.That is a weird description, like something you would say about a saint.  Malcolm is also the only character that speaks to Harry from the afterlife.

Doesn't seen to say he's a scion. Says a man. Could Eb have soulgazed him, to check him out for his daughter?

I wonder if when he went to Judgement, if a comment could have been made about what a good man he had been, and due a reward... and he asked the boon of being able to watch over the son he left orphaned. From the way they speak of him, the like of he and Forthill and Michael will not fear Judgement. I think Michael said something on those lines in Skin Game

[Mira]

Eb did soul gaze Malcolm, in Blood Rite he told Harry that he was the finest or best soul he'd ever seen.  With plain old vanilla mortals that is just a saying, but Eb is a wizard so it takes on a different meaning.  If Malcolm was a scion of something else, Eb would know.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Eb hasn’t Soul-gazed Michael, Father Forthill or other Knights, who are exemplars of the human condition, most likely other wizards who generally are not.

Eb has probably soul-gazed Listens to the Wind though, which would set a high standard for Malcolm. He soul-gazed Harry, so telling Harry that Malcolm was the best is an unintentional dig at Harry. Bad Eb.

[Mira]

Eb hasn’t Soul-gazed Michael, Father Forthill or other Knights, who are exemplars of the human condition, most likely other wizards who generally are not.

Eb has probably soul-gazed Listens to the Wind though, which would set a high standard for Malcolm. He soul-gazed Harry, so telling Harry that Malcolm was the best is an unintentional dig at Harry. Bad Eb.

Why?  It's no dig at Harry to tell him his father was a good man.  I imagine over his couple or more centuries of life, Eb has soul gazed a lot of souls, it is no dig at Harry to tell him his father ranks at the top.  Besides Eb isn't going to tell Harry everything he knows about him from their soul gaze, remember he managed to hide the fact that he was Harry's grandfather.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

He didn’t even try the weak pretence of “present company excepted”. Wizard’s have terrible social skills, it’s not just Harry.

Eb hadn’t ever met Harry other than in his capacity of his Master/mentor, nothing really to hide, and that is Eb’s fault due to his theory of childraising. They had no other connection. Bad Eb.

He really only started his grandfatherly relationship with Harry after the soulgaze, probably when he realised he wouldn’t have to execute him.

I suspect during Next Book the existence of Maggie becomes widely known amongst the Supernatural community, and Harry basically says:-

“Come for me, not my daughter if you have a beef with me.”

“The Red Court went for my daughter, kidnapped and brutalised her. I rendered them extinct. All of them.”

“Nicodemus Archelone threatened my daughter, I gave him the very worst day in his very long life, and I haven’t finished with him yet and I WILL kill him, because I can.”

“The Titan tried to kill my daughter. Ask her how that worked out. If you can find her. Please try to find her.”

“Mortal or  immortal, threaten my daughter and it’s the last thing you will ever do.”

His views on the subject are diametrically opposed to Eb’s, so no wonder it didn’t come out in the soulgaze.

[Mira]

He didn’t even try the weak pretence of “present company excepted”. Wizard’s have terrible social skills, it’s not just Harry.

Eb hadn’t ever met Harry other than in his capacity of his Master/mentor, nothing really to hide, and that is Eb’s fault due to his theory of childraising. They had no other connection. Bad Eb.

He really only started his grandfatherly relationship with Harry after the soulgaze, probably when he realised he wouldn’t have to execute him.

I suspect during Next Book the existence of Maggie becomes widely known amongst the Supernatural community, and Harry basically says:-

“Come for me, not my daughter if you have a beef with me.”

“The Red Court went for my daughter, kidnapped and brutalised her. I rendered them extinct. All of them.”

“Nicodemus Archelone threatened my daughter, I gave him the very worst day in his very long life, and I haven’t finished with him yet and I WILL kill him, because I can.”

“The Titan tried to kill my daughter. Ask her how that worked out. If you can find her. Please try to find her.”

“Mortal or  immortal, threaten my daughter and it’s the last thing you will ever do.”

His views on the subject are diametrically opposed to Eb’s, so no wonder it didn’t come out in the soulgaze.

None of that has any baring on Eb's opinion of Malcolm's soul, nor does is it any reflection of what Eb thought of his grandson at the time of their soul gaze.  Harry was a sixteen year old alienated and angry kid who had just killed his adopted father and nearly lost his head for it.  At the time of the soul gaze Eb was under orders to kill his grandson if he saw anything overly off.  He didn't.. Now I guess it depends on how one compares the souls of teenagers driven by hormones to adults who are driven by other factors.  So it is really hard to make any comparison in my opinion.  I think Harry was happy to hear that Eb's opinion of his father mirrors his own memories as a six year old of his beloved father.  I don't see Harry or anyone else in his place upon hearing this, demanding, "well,what about me? You soul gazed me too.."  Nor has Harry ever thought of himself as some kind of saint, so the idea that Eb might think higher of his father than himself, wouldn't bother him.  Also I might add, everyone who knows Harry and knew his father says he has his father's good heart, that should be enough for any good son.

Eb has probably soul-gazed Listens to the Wind though, which would set a high standard for Malcolm. He soul-gazed Harry, so telling Harry that Malcolm was the best is an unintentional dig at Harry. Bad Eb.

All that means of all the people Eb has soul gazed up until that point, and I imagine that is a lot of people.  It doesn't mean Malcolm's soul was the best out there, only of those Eb has ever soul gazed.  Harry wouldn't see it as a dig at him, he knows the state his soul was in when they had their gaze.  He also doesn't see it as some kind of goodness contest between Malcolm and himself.

[morriswalters]

Sanity check.  Saying somebody has a good soul is not the same as saying that they were soul gazed.  Eb may have looked at him with his sight or he may just have observed Malcolm as he raised Harry. If Malcolm was soul gazed by Eb then Malcolm would have seen Eb.  Nothing in the text mentioned that Malcolm had ever met Eb.

[Mira]

Sanity check.  Saying somebody has a good soul is not the same as saying that they were soul gazed.  Eb may have looked at him with his sight or he may just have observed Malcolm as he raised Harry. If Malcolm was soul gazed by Eb then Malcolm would have seen Eb.  Nothing in the text mentioned that Malcolm had ever met Eb.

Except Eb seemed to know Malcolm pretty well.. page 299 Blood Rites paperback

"She met your father.  A man.  A mortal, without powers, without influence, without resources.  But a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen.

Confirmed by Eb in this passage, Malcolm was an ordinary human, not a scion of an angel or anything else.  Also while if you want to split hairs, one could claim that when Eb says, a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen. He means he saw him and thought he was a good man, but really? I think when Eb says, "a good soul, like few I have ever seen. Yeah, Eb did a soul gaze with him and saw his soul.. It makes sense that he would, after all his only daughter was taking up with this man, and seemed changed by him.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Margaret probably had a terrible dating history before Malcolm, Lord Raith was probably the worst, but I wonder how many of his predecessors Eb killed? What with him being an overly protective father AND a major Supernatural assassin with a licence to kill, and her being a rebellious wild child associating with the less salubrious elements of the supernatural world. Quite a few of Harry’s rogues seem to have fond memories of his mother. Did she date them to spite her father?

Does anyone have a record of such mentions.? The two that spring to mind are Nicky commenting on Harry being Maggie’s youngest, and Goodman Grey saying she was as bad as his father. So did Margaret date a Denarian and a Naagloshii? The Lefay suggests that she dated amongst The Fae, so the Red Cap? The Erl King? What about the Hellhound, Eb really hates him.

Guaranteed to traumatise Harry if he goes down that route.

Malcolm must have seemed like a godsend to Eb, and probably was.

[morriswalters]

Except Eb seemed to know Malcolm pretty well.. page 299 Blood Rites paperback

Confirmed by Eb in this passage, Malcolm was an ordinary human, not a scion of an angel or anything else.  Also while if you want to split hairs, one could claim that when Eb says, a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen. He means he saw him and thought he was a good man, but really? I think when Eb says, "a good soul, like few I have ever seen. Yeah, Eb did a soul gaze with him and saw his soul.. It makes sense that he would, after all his only daughter was taking up with this man, and seemed changed by him.

Fix was a mortal  until he chose.  And I didn't say Eb didn't gaze him. But the statement is ambiguous. I would also point out that Margaret had a baby with Raith. And just as obviously she didn't share that with Eb. If Butcher is to be believed she was under a death sentence from the Council and running.  Eb's knowledge would appear suspect.  Which isn't to say you are wrong.

@Conspiracy Theorist

According to the Demon that Harry deals with in the early books she was on her way to Hell.  But found redemption. She had a baby with Raith. She threw Thomas under the bus. And managed to find the time to find Malcolm, cuddle up, and make a baby all while on the run from both the Council and a curse. She had had broken the first law.  A women of many talents.