Battle Ground foreshadowing

[morriswalters]

I'm sitting at my desk drinking a really good Small Batch Bourbon and listening to some of my favorite music and had a melancholy thought. Was Mab's order to Harry a foreshadowing?  Will Harry have to kill Molly?  Worse yet, if true, who will Molly kill before Harry can stop her? I can't really say there is any one thing that is the genesis of this thought, but it does follow the general theme that Butcher has always presented.  How can I torture Harry?

Since I'm shipping Harry and Mab, in my minds eye I see Harry holding a dying Mab in his arms as the stars go black in the sky.

[Mira]

I'm sitting at my desk drinking a really good Small Batch Bourbon and listening to some of my favorite music and had a melancholy thought. Was Mab's order to Harry a foreshadowing?  Will Harry have to kill Molly?  Worse yet, if true, who will Molly kill before Harry can stop her? I can't really say there is any one thing that is the genesis of this thought, but it does follow the general theme that Butcher has always presented.  How can I torture Harry?

Since I'm shipping Harry and Mab, in my minds eye I see Harry holding a dying Mab in his arms as the stars go black in the sky.

You should know better, never mix bourbon with The Dresden Files, it will give you a bad headache every time...

[morriswalters]

With Bourbon as expensive as what I was drinking I don't expect a headache.

[Mira]

With Bourbon as expensive as what I was drinking I don't expect a headache.

You should get something for your money...   However the redeeming bit about something of that quality it isn't for swilling, it is for sipping and savoring in small quantities, hence no headache..

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Mab can only die on the Stone Slab or on Harry’s Birthday, barring a total breach of reality threatened by the eye which she might have been afraid of in Battle Ground or the destruction of the universe by the White God. Interesting that Mab thought Harry could kill Molly, not that he would. Maybe the Spear?

Also might Molly’s death been a weapon against Ethnui? Molly is still a Wizard what if she had agreed with Mab to use her death curse on Ethnui? Supercharged by the Winter Mantle by a dying immortal it would have hurt Ethnui quite a lot allowing a win for Harry even without Mab, especially given the amount of power required to kill Mab expended by Ethnui. A Mab contingency plan.

The first two are not going to happen during Battle Ground, the last would leave Harry in no position to do anything. Halloween is when reality is at its thinnest so the Eye creating an artificial localised Halloween is not unexpected, Mab could have died at at time when there was an coordinated attack on the Outer Gates being dealt with by Lea. Mab would lose Chicago to save the Outer Gates, if she died Molly became Queen leaving who as the Lady? Molly was NOT ready to defend the Outer Gates, killing Molly would mean the Queen Mantle defaulted to Lea who was ready to defend the Outer Gates. At that point if Mab could die, so could Molly, especially using the Spear. Mab was simply not sure she could survive these circumstances, and it appears to have surprised Ethnui.

Mab will be training Molly henceforth in the defence of the Outer Gates now she has mastered the Lady’s role and performed well in battle (The one big issue with Molly, she was not a combat mage like Harry, and got badly injured during her first big battle). We know Mab has at least another TWELVE MONTHS in which to instruct Molly.

No I don’t think this is foreshadowing of Harry having to kill Molly later on, the Fomor attacked when Winter was weakest, both on the day of the year AND integrating a new Winter Lady. This was Mab making a cold logical assessment that indicated Molly had to be sacrificed for the greater good. Winter are not going to be so exposed after Battle Ground, so another form of attack will be required, Molly isn’t a weak link and this is now apparent.

[morriswalters]

Evidently she thinks she can die, the phrase she uses is that she is immortal not eternal. And Butcher likes to telegraph what he is going to do.

“It’s never that simple. Titania could decide that the best way to help me would be to break my back, paralyze me from the waist down, and dump me into a hospital bed so her gruffs won’t have to kill me.”

And two books later Harry breaks his back leaving him paralyzed. However I have no direct support for the thought, merely the thought.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Immortals can die on Halloween at least, the White God probably not.

[Mira]

Evidently she thinks she can die, the phrase she uses is that she is immortal not eternal. And Butcher likes to telegraph what he is going to do. And two books later Harry breaks his back leaving him paralyzed. However I have no direct support for the thought, merely the thought.

It is possible that though she is now Lady of the Winter Court, the transformation over to full fae hasn't been finished, and till it is,  Molly can still be killed like any other ordinary mortal.

[morriswalters]

If Butcher needs Molly dead then she will die and the same is true for Mab. For instance Bob knows how to kill an immortal.  At no point does Butcher put it in canon that there is only one way it can be done. It may well be that the Knight himself is a fail safe of some kind and that the Mantle may be able to do what a mortal couldn't. You can infer this from Mab's command.  She evidently thinks Harry could do it, even if he won't.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

If Butcher needs Molly dead then she will die and the same is true for Mab. For instance Bob knows how to kill an immortal.  At no point does Butcher put it in canon that there is only one way it can be done. It may well be that the Knight himself is a fail safe of some kind and that the Mantle may be able to do what a mortal couldn't. You can infer this from Mab's command.  She evidently thinks Harry could do it, even if he won't.

As previously stated, if reality breaks down all bets are off, Mab probably had no idea whether Ethnui could kill her, or not but if she could she considered that conditions were likely that  Molly would be vulnerable as well. I doubt there was any precedent for what was going on in Battle Ground.

If Mab did die the Mantle would pass to Molly unless as with the Summer Knights Mantle, Harry turned Molly to Stone, the transmission is pretty automatic, and the Lady’s Mantle would go to the nearest Virgin Changeling or Wizard with any association with Winter, with the likely result they Carlos would become the Winter Laddy.

[morriswalters]

I believe you. But we are still left with the text, Mab thinks Harry could do the deed. Either Butcher is jerking our chain or Harry could do the dirty and kill Molly even if she received the Mantle.

[Arjan]

Immortals can die on Halloween at least, the White God probably not.

That is what you think. We know he can die 9 times.

[Yuillegan]

I'm sitting at my desk drinking a really good Small Batch Bourbon and listening to some of my favorite music and had a melancholy thought. Was Mab's order to Harry a foreshadowing?  Will Harry have to kill Molly?  Worse yet, if true, who will Molly kill before Harry can stop her? I can't really say there is any one thing that is the genesis of this thought, but it does follow the general theme that Butcher has always presented.  How can I torture Harry?

Since I'm shipping Harry and Mab, in my minds eye I see Harry holding a dying Mab in his arms as the stars go black in the sky.

I like the imagery; both of sipping bourbon and the Harry holding a dying Mab as the stars wink out.

Very plausible, Butcher has telegraphed such things before. At any rate, we shall get more insight on why Mab gave such an order and what Molly's influence might be on Winter.

As previously stated, if reality breaks down all bets are off, Mab probably had no idea whether Ethnui could kill her, or not but if she could she considered that conditions were likely that  Molly would be vulnerable as well. I doubt there was any precedent for what was going on in Battle Ground.

If Mab did die the Mantle would pass to Molly unless as with the Summer Knights Mantle, Harry turned Molly to Stone, the transmission is pretty automatic, and the Lady’s Mantle would go to the nearest Virgin Changeling or Wizard with any association with Winter, with the likely result they Carlos would become the Winter Laddy.

I seem to remember Bob stating that Halloween was only one such conjunction when Immortals can die, not the only one. Certain places in the NeverNever I believe he said.

That is what you think. We know he can die 9 times.

I don't remember that ever being in the Dresden Files.

Just make sure we are discussing what is in the fictional universe of the Dresden Files, not our own universe.

[TrueMonk]

A lot of beings are said to have nine lives, some people believe the white god is one such being which has been part of ehe series for a long time.

At least Molly believes she is immortal. In battle ground she told Harry she could go through a wood chipper and she would get better.

It was not the breaking down of reality, it was being hit by the eye itself. If she had waited by Odin, the Earl King and Titania's bodies, put them in a pile and blasted them when it was ready then they would have been dead. Or if she had managed to  hit Mab a second time

[Conspiracy Theorist]

A lot of beings are said to have nine lives, some people believe the white god is one such being which has been part of ehe series for a long time.

The Mister Microfiction disproved that Mister is the White God.