Is Lasciel really a fallen angel?

[I_hate_lotr]

Lasciel is repeatedly called a her or she. The only problem is Angel's are not female. When they took on human form to create nephilim they took on male form. So if she isn't an angel, what is she?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Lasciel’s a Fallen Angel known as the Seducer, to achieve that purpose Lasciel identified a gender, and that is how ‘she’ is perceived and now perceives ‘herself.’

In the case of Uriel his identification as ‘he’ is purely due to the perceptions of those ‘he’ has interacted with.

[Arjan]

It is all about gender self identification 

[I_hate_lotr]

Understand that in the books what she is called. Just saying maybe she isn't a fallen angel. That this lie has been going on for a long time.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It is all about gender self identification 

The TV show Lucifer had it that Angels self actualised, beyond gender this covered their powers, mortality, wings and ability to reproduce..

Everything would appear to indicate Lasciel is a “Fallen” Angel unless you are saying that there are actually no “Fallen” angels, only angels playing the part on behest of the White God as part of his/her ineffable plan, but how could we know? It’s effing ineffable!

This would mean the Knights of the Cross are nothing but unwitting Participants in the ultimate LARP (except Butters where it is certainly quite witting on his part, he is the biggest geek in the Multiverse).

The other angel we know about is Mac, who retired. Did he retire just because he got fed up with the LARPing? Doesn’t seem to have done him any good, so you would think he would spill the beans and sing like a canary to the mortals.

[morriswalters]

Understand that in the books what she is called. Just saying maybe she isn't a fallen angel. That this lie has been going on for a long time.

She is by definition a fallen since she is bound in the Denarius. That could change if it served the convenience of the story. But Butcher would have to tell us.

[Arjan]

There is also post biblical stories and art and non christian or even non abrahamic traditions. also Jim is a god in his own world, if he wants to add to the stories he very well can do so.

If you look for Lasciel on the internet your hits are all about the dresden files, there is no outside source for her story as far as I can find. Jim needed a female fallen angel to stand for temptation and here she is.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

She is by definition a fallen since she is bound in the Denarius. That could change if it served the convenience of the story. But Butcher would have to tell us.

Maybe she just fell in with a bad crowd and it was peer pressure like with Crowley (actually I think that several Fallen got intrigued with aspects of the human condition, like Namshiel and magic rather than directly rebelling against the White God). In Laschiels case it appears to be sex and pancakes.

[morriswalters]

As a noir character she's a trope.  The femme fatale leading our hero around by sex. Chaste or wanton. Depending on which serves her purpose at a given point in time. Butcher could have done better.

[Snark Knight]

Maybe she just fell in with a bad crowd and it was peer pressure like with Crowley

Pretty sure there was some WOJ that she got exiled for trying to play both sides for her own ends during Lucifer's rebellion. Which kind of explains why her relationship with the other 29 is mostly transactional, rather than being a proper member in the Anduriel/Nic or Imariel/Tessa cabals.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I suspect that the interrelationships of the Denarian’s are far more complex than we have been shown to date why else would such care be taken to hide information about them?

Namshiel appears to have thrown in his lot with Marcone, less than happy with Nick, we know that there are also a hidden faction working with the Black Council that worries Nick, Lasciel is suddenly interested in her child with Harry and willing to make an alliance but not out of obeisance to Nick, out of necessity.

Nick’s power over the Denarians is at its weakest in 2,000 years, so we may see more a mere two books after Next Book. We may find out who was the Denarian on the Black Council (I call Tessa, it will hurt Nick the most, and he had little control over her, I think Nick kept Namshiel on a very tight reign, his speech was archaic suggesting Nick put him in cold storage when he didn’t need him for big magic )

[Snark Knight]

Namshiel appears to have thrown in his lot with Marcone, less than happy with Nick, we know that there are also a hidden faction working with the Black Council that worries Nick, Lasciel is suddenly interested in her child with Harry and willing to make an alliance but not out of obeisance to Nick, out of necessity.

Nick’s power over the Denarians is at its weakest in 2,000 years, so we may see more a mere two books after Next Book. We may find out who was the Denarian on the Black Council (I call Tessa, it will hurt Nick the most, and he had little control over her, I think Nick kept Namshiel on a very tight reign, his speech was archaic suggesting Nick put him in cold storage when he didn’t need him for big magic)

Mostly agreed. Namshiel seems to have been more aligned with Tessa than Nic, though. And his archaic speech was probably more a function of not caring enough about human affairs to keep up to date - he kept his last host tightly enslaved and mostly just focused on his magical experiments for quite a while up until Michael killed that host.

Realizing there is a Black Council mole among the Denarians and suspecting 1) it's Tessa 2) she's setting him up as her scapegoat ... that would make a real good motivation to strike out on his own. Maybe coming to more of a partnership relationship with Marcone is a product of realizing he can't afford to be the magic nerd anymore, and needs a power base independent of being part of anyone else' cabal.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

But Namshiel has updated himself as apparent from Battle Ground,

Namshiel is the most powerful magic user, amongst the Denarians  more so than Tessa and much more than Cassius, the former somewhat antagonistic to Nick, the latter slavish. I wonder if the relationship related to power level? Namshiel too powerful to left to his own devices, but far to useful to not use him on occasion. Note he hadn’t previously been used on the Fake Shroud, was Nick only going to let him ‘out’ to help generate the plague, not get the Fake Shroud?

I suspect Marcone fed his inner nerd by buying books and materials and getting a no talent mortal up to wizard level as an interesting project. Nick probably never read Pratchett so didn’t know the best way to keep a nerd imprisoned is just provide them with all the materials they need and a workroom. No need for a door lock.

His time with Marcone may be the longest he has been ‘out’ in millennia

[b4utoo]

After careful consideration I think this question is going nowhere. I guess it's kind of like asking if water is really wet

[morriswalters]

It tickles me that people romanticize characters like Namshiel. He got stuck in a coin for a reason. Inhabiting Marcone is like hitting the lottery for a Denarian. If you want to have maximum leverage then you look for the right fulcrum. If Mab can, she will hammer him, she owes him and she pays her debts.