Author Topic: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or  (Read 3860 times)

Offline b4utoo

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Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« on: December 21, 2021, 08:00:38 PM »
Warden lol

Seriously.

Technically isn't Harry the most powerful character in Dresden Files. As of right now. If he's on the island.

Where do they rank?

Even the Walkers?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2021, 01:07:35 AM »
Technically it’s Alfred, Harry describes himself as a key, and believes that Alfred can keep things from him, therefore Harry believes Alfred is capable of independent action, meaning Alfred isn’t a power up, he is an ally.

On the island Harry has that limited Intellectus and has physical control of the island, power ups, but against Shaggy or Drakul that might not be enough. He has been warned against tapping the ley lines which would power him up like in Battle Ground yet. The Intellectus would for example counter Drakul’s teleportation, telling Harry where he is instantly, but Drakul would be still able to escape the quicksand trick using his teleportation, nullifying that advantage of Harry. Drakul teleports and Harry immediately turns where he is standing to quicksand trapping Drakul, Drakul teleports out of the quicksand and instead floats above the surface of Demonreach.

Future Harry able to tap the ley lines successfully could just keep zapping Drakul in mid air all day. Current Harry would run out of juice before Drakul. Drakul wins against current Harry, loses against future Harry.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 01:22:44 AM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline b4utoo

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2021, 01:40:36 AM »
Seems that you're limited on what Harry can do on the island. I'm pretty sure Harry has a bigger Arsenal than quicksand and intellectus. And I'm sure Alfred could physically whip dracul ass before ever came to blows with Harry..

Offline Avernite

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2021, 12:55:36 PM »
Uriel would be able to defeat Harry by unmaking the whole planet, but would be at risk if actually on the island.

I suspect many others have similar risks; stirring up Lake Michigan so the island floods would probably kill Harry, and even the Ladies could probably pull that (at least Molly could freeze large water bodies), but going into Harry's reach means you've mitigated most of such 'nuclear' options.

And of course, Harry is a mortal, so he has some advantages like circle traps. I wonder if Harry could use the island to empower a circle with his will, trapping anything overly supernatural. Odin or Drakul might be able to step out or smudge it for being just mortal-world enough, but not if they're wanting to go high-stakes magic combat right after (I assume, at least, that Odin has ways to store his powerups for later use outside of his person). Anyone else able to fight Harry on the island would definitely not be able to do it.

Well, except Lara could probably convince the US military to test some high-grade ordinance on that good-for-nothing empty island in the lake, why not?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2021, 05:36:11 PM »
Seems that you're limited on what Harry can do on the island. I'm pretty sure Harry has a bigger Arsenal than quicksand and intellectus. And I'm sure Alfred could physically whip dracul ass before ever came to blows with Harry..

Alfred is an ally not a power and harry’s Intellectus and his ability to manipulate the structure of the island are the only powers demonstrated by Harry to date as Warden. Maeve at one point neutralised Alfred with sufficient stacked Fae power, there is therefore at least one recorded instance that Harry could not rely upon Alfred as an ally on the Island.

We might in the future see other powers Harry has on the island, but it is impossible to speculate what they are as Jim hasn’t let on about them. The only potential new power is the tapping of the ley lines.

Against Blood On His Soul Harry would have a significant advantage with these two demonstrated powers, the Big Feet and their evil cousins seem to gain their power from the natural environment which on Demonreach are totally bent to Harry’s will, and his weapon. It won’t help to veil either, Harry’s Intellectus would discern the footprints of very big feet easily. Harry wins this one, rather easily, as Blood on His Soul wouldn’t be able to get within Head twisting distance of Harry. A couple of hailstones to the head at close range then fire.

Using these two powers Harry can take on any Fae on Demonreach, he knows where every discarded iron nail or rusty chain is located on the island. He can manipulate the ground to deliver them to where he needs them, in the case of iron nails into the soles of the feet of his adversary at considerable force when they are not expecting it. In an immortal Fae (Aurora, Mab, Erl King, Puck) Harry merely needs to immobilise them until his birthday, an non-immortal Fae is toast. Another Warden couldn’t kill an immortal Fae. Harry wins. Mothers appear to be immune to iron (Mother Winters iron teeth). The Mother wins.

Nicodemus Archelone, Harry uses the Intellectus to give him an advantage over Anduriel, when near some trees he uses a strong branch to grab him by the noose and a second strong branch to grab Nicky by the body and use the noose to pull Nicky’s head off. Easy win for Harry but dependent upon Harry’s special knowledge, another Warden would lose, Nicky could take to the air to avoid the Intellectus after an unsuccessful attack on him and attack that way.

Shagnasty still a loss for Harry on his current Demonreach powers, future power of tapping into the Ley line, maybe, but as an immortal he can reconstitute unless is is done on Halloween, so a rematch would be on the cards. Stalemate.

Mavra, easy win for Harry, his Intellectus trumps her veil, and I bet there is wild garlic on Demonreach, as well as every single branch and twig on the island a weapon against her.

Odin - still a win for Odin, he almost certainly knows all about Demonreach as his pupil built it. If anyone could anticipate and turn those powers against Harry it is Odin.

Hades - Harry is toast even if he taps into the ley line. Still far too powerful.

A couple of these wins and broken stalemates are because of Harry’s singular knowledge of his adversaries vulnerabilities, not just because of the Demonreach powers.



« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 06:17:52 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline b4utoo

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2021, 01:10:04 AM »
I call bull of most of what was just said.

There is plenty Harry can do. And Alfred is at Harry's disposal.

Everyone you just mentioned is instantly neutralized with a simple statement.

Alfred Demonreach.. if Mab pulls that trigger take her down below and keep her there.

 Just substitute Mab's name for anybody elses. And no this is not a direct quote.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2021, 01:51:21 PM »
I call bull of most of what was just said.

There is plenty Harry can do. And Alfred is at Harry's disposal.

Everyone you just mentioned is instantly neutralized with a simple statement.

Alfred Demonreach.. if Mab pulls that trigger take her down below and keep her there.

 Just substitute Mab's name for anybody elses. And no this is not a direct quote.
Storytelling 101.  Harry has just as much power at any point as Butcher wants him to have. The longer the books go on the more ridiculous it starts to become.

Offline b4utoo

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2021, 04:10:53 PM »
Sounds like you don't like the series...

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2021, 07:55:45 PM »
Think what you please, but I've paid for the privilege.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2021, 11:23:04 PM »
Storytelling 101.  Harry has just as much power at any point as Butcher wants him to have. The longer the books go on the more ridiculous it starts to become.

Exactly Harry isn’t a god, it would be boring if he was. As it stands Harry can win against lower and mid level opponents on Demonreach on his own with his existing powers and knowledge and the two extant additional powers already granted to him as Warden.

Alfred is a powerful ally, but limited but so is Odin, so is Mab. There is no drama in Harry going mob handed against his rogues gallery, it’s always Harry against the world and some last minute creative mayhem. The above scenarios are exactly in that theme. Adding Alfred makes it too easy. The whole tapping the ley line is for a heavy hitter in the future, probably a rematch with Shaggy, when Alfred is tied up on something or someone else or in circumstances where Harry can’t summon him.

Aside from the brute force approach I would seek to try the Sanctum invocation to block Harry from controlling Alfred, something which Cowl would likely try, putting Harry in a battle of wills at the same time he is taking on the heavy hitter.

After all the Black Council really want control of Demonreach

Offline b4utoo

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2021, 05:45:50 AM »
More like pirated lol but it's all good. Without a troll once in a while the boards might get boring.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2021, 11:56:07 AM »

More like pirated lol but it's all good. Without a troll once in a while the boards might get boring.

Things never end well for Trolls in the Dresdenverse.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2021, 10:52:38 PM »
He should read Restoration of Faith. He should also read the WOJ's on Harry's power levels. Butcher's whole point is to keep Harry underpowered as compared to the main antagonist. No fight will happen where Demonreach makes it too easy for Harry to win.

Now put that in context for Peace Talks and Battle Ground..  He gives Butters a sword and then has to nerf it because it's too powerful.  The Eye of Balor has a chill down. Really?  He has a fight at Demonreach, but it's a touchy feely thing not meant to end in blood, because he needs a wife, and he obviously has a vampire thing. Oh yeah and Demonreach can come play at the beach but couldn't help Harry when he was attacked by  a Kraken. He had to be rescued by Molly, riding two sharks. He gets mad at Carlos for planting a bug on him.  Well the laughs on Carlos because Rashid's had Harry bugged since at least Summer Knight. Rashid could have answered Carlos's question for sure.

Happy Holidays

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2021, 02:34:44 AM »
Alfred is an ally not a power and harry’s Intellectus and his ability to manipulate the structure of the island are the only powers demonstrated by Harry to date as Warden. Maeve at one point neutralised Alfred with sufficient stacked Fae power, there is therefore at least one recorded instance that Harry could not rely upon Alfred as an ally on the Island.

Did she really neutralize Alfred, or was he just sandbagging to play for time?

Mab thanked him for his restraint afterward. Suggests he could have done more but chose not to.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Drakul Odin Demonreach Hades Queens or
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2021, 02:50:23 AM »
And that’s the point, Alfred has choice, he is not a tool, or a weapon, or a power.