What Should Butters Ask For?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Butters earned a major favour from Mab in Battle Ground, pulling the steel rebar from her and allowing her to resume regenerating.

What should Butters ask for? It can only be something within Mab’s power to grant, so it can only be something within Mab’s (or Titania’s) existing influence or reach we have seen or heard about in the files, and something Butters would ask for, not necessarily something he needs, but perhaps something he wants.

For example Mab has access to riches, but Butters isn’t really interested in personal wealth. He is a simple nerdy soul at heart.

Thoughts please

[Mira]

  He might be the one who ends up asking Mab to free Harry or Molly from their obligation.  Or if not that perhaps free Harry from having to marry Lara.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

A very Butters thing, to think of other people, and not himself.

But Butters is also smart, he knows both Harry and Molly are best placed as Knight and Lady at the current time, Battle Ground say to that. So whilst they are needed in those positions he won’t use that as his favour. In addition Mab can certainly release Harry as her Knight at any time, she cannot release the Lady so easily, Cold Days taught us that. Besides Harry is slowly putting together his own escape plan for him and Molly, finding out more about Immortals and Mantles.

My own thought, he asks Mab to pardon Bob. If he has any sense only Bob and not Evil Bob. Bob is the only other character with a relationship with both Butters and Mab, if he can’t rescue Harry or Molly because they are too important where they are, he can save Bob from Mab’s wrath. It would free Bob up to act much more openly, especially as the other group after him, the White Council are much more  afraid of Harry with the Eye of Balor. Bob in his Sanctum is only 10th on the list of most dangerous magical artefacts after the Eye, the Grail, the Shroud, The Spear, the Crown, The Placard and the Swords, of which Harry controls directly seven and has connections with another two.

[b4utoo]

I think Butters is already going to make his request. And It will later be known. Once its product by Harry. And he's going to say or Mab going to say it's already been used. Harry going to find out and that it was another selfless act by Butters

[MoroccoMole]

I think Butters, with all of the best intentions, is going to ask for something big and important, and then Mab is going to say, "My Knight, could you help out butters with a little something....."

[hiddendotgif]

I like the idea of Butters getting Bob pardoned.
However, may I propose; Butters asking for a mantle of some kind.
This is very far-fetched, and likely won't happen, but Butters sees his friends and family getting hurt, even with Harry's help. While Harry was bucket-kicked, Butters had taken over as the town's magical vigilante, with the help of Bob, of course. So, what better way to help than to get more power?

Obviously not going to happen, as Butters is far too smart to take anything tying him to Mab or Winter
But imagine Butters with proper Power, and the knowledge and common sense to use it.

Oh yeah, plus the lightsaber-sword

[Mira]

I like the idea of Butters getting Bob pardoned.
However, may I propose; Butters asking for a mantle of some kind.
This is very far-fetched, and likely won't happen, but Butters sees his friends and family getting hurt, even with Harry's help. While Harry was bucket-kicked, Butters had taken over as the town's magical vigilante, with the help of Bob, of course. So, what better way to help than to get more power?

Obviously not going to happen, as Butters is far too smart to take anything tying him to Mab or Winter
But imagine Butters with proper Power, and the knowledge and common sense to use it.

Oh yeah, plus the lightsaber-sword

A big factor in the fear Butters had of Harry in Skin Game, was Bob.  Yes, Butters was very angry that young kids were being abducted and Harry wasn't around to try and stop it.  What he didn't know was the reason why he wasn't, was he was in a coma on Demonreach.  Getting back to Bob, he has a long history with Mab, he is on her "shit list," and he is afraid of her.  He has a distinct view point of her and tends to prejudice those he influences against her, the Winter Knight's gig, and the Winter Court.  It was a factor in Harry's suicide, not totally of course, there were a lot factors but the information Bob had always given him was negative, and it prejudiced Harry's view point and he is a wizard with more information than most.  Take Butters, who most of the time has an open mind, but knows next to nothing about the Winter Court etc, he bought into what Bob told him and believed Harry had turned into a monster because this is what Bob believes based on his own baggage with the Winter Court.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I wonder if Bob wanted a replacement Sanctum not beholden to an owner because he wants his freedom from Harry or whoever holds the skull? Bonea is not under the compulsions Bob is in his Sanctum.

Harry is still under obligation to provide a Sanctum for Bob, he could do so far easier now having made one before, with that and a pardon from Mab Bob would effectively be a free agent.

I would love to see a free Bob in a new Sanctum make himself an ectoplasm body (modelled after the one he had in his Sanctum in Ghost Story) and take a sledgehammer to his old Sanctum as his first act. Harry had long threatened it, but it would be cathartic for Bob.

Free Bob!

[ZhonLord]

Honestly, from a meta perspective, what he should probably ask is to have Mab seek a way to remove the Death Curse on Harry.  It's a big part of the reason he drives people away, gets them hurt, or otherwise isolates from them / keeps them in the dark for "their own good" (see: Ramirez), and it's resulted in a number of physical and emotional scars to everyone around him.  At this rate something will happen to Maggie too.  Mab would even have incentive to do it now, with this proposed marriage to the White Vampire Court; the curse could easily affect Lara too and that would be bad news for the White Court if she were crippled in some way after the arranged marriage was complete.

I'm fairly certain Ma-excuse me, the Winter Queen, has been taking advantage of the curse to help make sure her Knight is strong enough to stand and fight on his own, but turning a curse into an asset can only go so far.  At some point it'll be a hindrance to her plans.  And Butters would be the most likely person to know about the curse since he was literally part of the team helping save Harry's life when the curse was first placed.

But, that's a meta perspective.  What's LIKELY going to happen is that Butters is going to find out about some plan or other of the Queen's and call in his favor to have her change how it plays out, so that fewer/no innocent lives are caught in the crossfire even if it makes her plan less efficient / more risky. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

WOJ has it that the Cassius death curse has been discharged/is ineffective (“we all die alone”). Cassius wasn’t the sharpest knife in the box and should really have gone with “die unloved” so that Harry predeceases everyone who loves him. That would have hurt Harry more. Cassius really didn’t understand love.

Yes, pretty much everyone agrees that Butters will call in the favour on behalf of someone else, I suspect in a fashion which really grates against what Mab perceives to be Winters nature, like how Molly got them to be the “Good People”. That showed that Winter had unexpected depths not limited by the Mantles, but allowed by them, and surprised Mab. Both Harry and Molly are changing Winter, what if that is Butters Favour? To elicit further change? He is owed a really major favour, what if Mab is really surprised that she can actually grant it. To cause Winter to cease preying on humanity, and become a protector other than just at the Outer Gates? To prey instead on that which would prey on Humanity, wild Fae, rogue White Court vampires, the Black Court etc.

We are seeing a re-alignment of the Accorded Nations to treat more publicly with humanity, that is new.

Harry’s big fear for both him and Molly is that Winter will make them Monsters. What if instead they and Butters cease to make Winter monstrous? If humanity deals openly with its monsters they become less monstrous.

[Yuillegan]

I think it's probably smart not to be involved with a Faerie, particularly a Queen. However, Mab must balance the scales if a favour is owed and Butters would have to name his price.

So, if that's the case then I suspect Butters should either a) ask for something equal ASAP e.g. being freed after getting trapped OR b) save it for a rainy day.

Getting free of the entanglement is probably safer, but it might be more useful to save it up. I guess it's like any favour or investment - until it's realised it's not actually worth anything, and should you leave it too long you might lose it for whatever reason.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

He can’t ask for something like a doughnut, only an idiot would do that.

[Yuillegan]

He can’t ask for something like a doughnut, only an idiot would do that.

Only an idiot to some, I think. It wasn't just a doughnut after all. That in itself wouldn't have been a trade in favors of equal value. It was the escape from the agents of Summer that the requisitioning of the doughnut allowed for that was the real trade.

Butters could do something similar I would imagine.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry has a well cultivated image of being a bit of an idiot, and it has saved his life on several occasions. This is largely because his subconscious is not an idiot and is considerably smarter than his conscious. His conscious plan was indeed to delay Eldest Gruff with his request, but he was betting on the Eldest playing along once he got the doughnut and the obligation was discharged, or that it would take just long enough to discharge. If either of these assumption had been wrong, Harry would have been left holding a doughnut and no other means to defend himself against Gruff.

Except, with a doughnut Harry could have summoned the Za Lords Guard with their box cutters, taking down Eldest Gruff with cold iron. That was likely his subconscious’ backup plan in case the assumptions were wrong. He could have asked for a Coke like with Cat Sith, and a Pizza might have been a bit too obvious, but he has previously summoned Toot with a doughnut. Both pizzas and doughnuts are magic circles to the Little Folk, and are sweetened dough, two components of the traditional, bread, honey and milk summoning ritual. Basically he made Gruff obtain the instrument of his own destruction.

You have always got to figure that some of the stupid stuff that Harry does actually folds into a very not stupid and lethal backup plan in case the stupid plan fails. Sometimes it is just stupid though.

Butters wouldn’t do the not stupid lethal backup plan, ne is nicer than Harry.

[Yuillegan]

See, I think Harry has self-esteem issues and henceforth feels the need to describe himself or think of himself as an idiot. He also often uses it to excuse poor and lazy behavior, which isn't great.

I agree he often plays the part of an idiot to fool his enemies, but I don't think it's as Machiavellian as someone constructing a persona. I think its far more organic than that. Harry just doesn't want to think of himself as intelligent and calculating, because that would force him to acknowledge his choices more than he is comfortable with. I also suspect that Harry has grown up in environments that at times made him want to hide his intelligence, so it was easier to pretend to be a fool. This is fairly evident because he goes from listing the benefits of study and being a great student and loving his work as a wizard or a PI to pretending he is just an average joe, just a guy who is like everyone else. And it's pointed out to him throughout the series that he is doing absurd mental gymnastics to connect that logic. Many have reminded him he isn't at all average, and the self-delusion is far more about Dresden's own issues than his mental capacity.

As for the doughnut incident, I think he was betting on Eldest Gruff being friendly, which he rightly assessed after a conversation. If he thought of Eldest Gruff as more hostile, I suspect he might have had a different boon to ask of. He also makes the kind of request to give Eldest Gruff some deniability so that he will not suffer so much of Titania's wrath, which is both polite and and kind. This earns him goodwill with Eldest Gruff, and perhaps by extension those friends of Eldest Gruff. Harry is smart enough to know all this, even if he didn't plan it and thought of it in the moment.

I think it's semantics to say the sub-conscious is smarter than the conscious. It's the same thing. His Id just happens to be more pragmatic. This can mean at times it appears more clear headed, although as Harry points out it just as often means it acts predictably and acting on instinct doesn't trump logic and reasoning.

I agree, Harry could have asked for a treat to summon the Za Lord's guard (although considering Eldest Gruff's skill with magic and combat experience, I wouldn't be so sure that he would be that easy to put down). I don't think I am entirely convinced he or his subconscious had thought of summoning the Guard, but that head canon could easily work.

The reality of course is that the line about getting a doughnut is tension relief; i.e. comedy. Jim creates a series of very tense moments, and releases that tension by creating a very silly moment. Great for an audience.

But I wouldn't be so sure that it was just stupid though. Remember, the Fae have to give and receive gifts of equal value (at least, that's the rule established in Grave Peril and elaborated on later in Ghost Story when Harry and Lea discuss the trade of Harry's memories). Balance is crucial. Had Harry not asked for a gift of equal value, it wouldn't have met the value of his boon and Summer would have been still in his debt and not meeting their word and obligation, and so he needed to ask for something of the value that the boon was given for (i.e. the help that he gave Summer in Proven Guilty).

I do agree that Harry makes stupid mistakes though, plenty of them. Harry would be first to admit that.

Butter's isn't as silly as Harry, he wouldn't even think to do something so strange. Butter's could ask for something valuable but still fairly low-tier though, like providing a distraction when he needs a getaway.