Molly’s Apartment

[SerScot]

Okay, multiple times in Cold Days Molly says the apartment is “hers” that “she owns” the Apartment.  That being the case why would the Sfvartalves object to Harry’s (essentially subletting from Molly) extra security measures?  How can the Sfvartalves just enter the Apartment without the permission of the owner or the owner’s guest?  Why would Molly agree to “ownership” that allows such entry without permission?

This doesn’t make sense to me.

[vincentric]

Molly is a heroine that they owe a great debt to. Harry is just a guest.

Plus, they were trying to rescue the girls and Mouse. Remember that the building was on fire and they wanted them in a safer place. Their methods were the cause of the problems. If they had been less secretive and paranoid about security there would have been much less tension in that situation.

[SerScot]

Molly is a heroine that they owe a great debt to. Harry is just a guest.

Plus, they were trying to rescue the girls and Mouse. Remember that the building was on fire and they wanted them in a safer place. Their methods were the cause of the problems. If they had been less secretive and paranoid about security there would have been much less tension in that situation.

But ownership matters.  If it doesn’t matter… why did Molly insist upon it. 

[Mira]

But ownership matters.  If it doesn’t matter… why did Molly insist upon it.

Actually, I think Harry could have gone back to the apartment, but now it was awkward that he
so so after what Thomas did.  However Harry didn't want to go back he wanted his old address back, and they backed him by twisted the truth a little.  I think any time she wants it, Molly can go back and live in the apartment.

[SerScot]

Actually, I think Harry could have gone back to the apartment, but now it was awkward that he
so so after what Thomas did.  However Harry didn't want to go back he wanted his old address back, and they backed him by twisted the truth a little.  I think any time she wants it, Molly can go back and live in the apartment.

I get why Harry wanted the castle.  I’m wondering why the SVA’s could so easily get access to property that doesn’t belong to them?  And why they were upset about additional security measures on property that doesn’t belong to them?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Molly has a lease, knowing the Swartalves, a long, long detailed lease.

Most such leases include not making alterations without the express approval of the landlord.

Harry made alterations with the landlords approval, and technically thy had recourse to end the lease with Molly, instead they just insisted her guests leave. They don’t owe Guest Right to Harry.

[SerScot]

Molly has a lease, knowing the Swartalves, a long, long detailed lease.

Most such leases include not making alterations without the express approval of the landlord.

Harry made alterations with the landlords approval, and technically thy had recourse to end the lease with Molly, instead they just insisted her guests leave. They don’t owe Guest Right to Harry.

Molly is not leasing.  She says at least twice in Cold Days that the apartment is “her property” that she “owns” it.  That implies fee simple ownership not a leasehold.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

In Uk law you can have a 999 year lease, a long leasehold or virtual freehold of which you are the legal owner, subject to certain covenants, about alterations, alienation etc. That is the type of arrangement envisaged. Molly got it when she was still mortal, a long leasehold would outlast considerably even a Wizards lifespan, but still give the Swartalves a degree of control. The apartment is in the middle of their complex, they control the right of access, and would certainly want veto over any changes to the structure.

[SerScot]

In Uk law you can have a 999 year lease, a long leasehold or virtual freehold of which you are the legal owner, subject to certain covenants, about alterations, alienation etc. That is the type of arrangement envisaged. Molly got it when she was still mortal, a long leasehold would outlast considerably even a Wizards lifespan, but still give the Swartalves a degree of control. The apartment is in the middle of their complex, they control the right of access, and would certainly want veto over any changes to the structure.

What are you basing that upon?  She very clearly says she “owns” the apartment.  That is “hers”.  There is nothing that indicates she has anything but fee simple ownership.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Molly is not a lawyer, and was mortal. Something like a 999 year leasehold is ownership, it’s a significant estate in land. She probably at that point hadn’t grasped how long her mortal lifespan was, and wasn’t yet immortal.

The Swartalves certainly assume they should have been consulted about Harry’s alterations, not something a freehold owner would have to generally worry about, but a leasehold owner would.

And yes,  Sweden utilises a similar freehold/leasehold ownership system to the UK, rather than the continental system so that is likely the model the Swartalves would use for property rights.

[morriswalters]

It appears to be a condo.  You own a condo, but your co-owners can enter your property given cause. A fire would be cause.  In terms of the threshold, the same principle applies that applied to Harry's apartment.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Yes, but it’s a bachelorette apartment so some threshold but fairly weak. That’s why Harry did the security upgrade, it needed it even more than his old bachelor apartment needed the steel door.

Having Maggie stay over would have improved the threshold a tint bit.

[Basil]

Let my put my lawyer hat on for this debate:

You can own a "fee simple" meaning that you can do pretty much whatever you want subject to the laws of your nation/state/county/city.  But, that last point is important.  I own a fee simple, but I can't say ... build a Chernobyl style fission plant on the property.  Perhaps the Svartelves make a "law" (or really think a law) no guests who are wizards over 6 feet 6 inches in height -- Harry actually resembles Chernobyl in many ways. 

But, you can also own property that have strings attached -- easements.  The most common ones that you see in the US are utility easements.  Meaning, the gas/telephone/electric/cable company can enter onto your property to their thing.  Home Owner Associations area also a type of easement.  But, you can have others such as if your property blocks egress/entry for another property.

There are other lesser forms of ownership too, for example a "Life Estate," which is actually the most likely scenario for Molly.  Life Estate works exactly how you expect -- it's your property and you can do whatever you want with it -- except transfer it to anyone -- until your death. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Life estate is a continental concept not found in UK or Swedishlaw, my guess the Swartalves thought that Molly would only have a Wizards lifespan and the remainder of the lease would not be taken up. Now Molly will very likely live the entirety of a 999 year lease, the jokes on them.

[SerScot]

Life estate is a continental concept not found in UK or Swedishlaw, my guess the Swartalves thought that Molly would only have a Wizards lifespan and the remainder of the lease would not be taken up. Now Molly will very likely live the entirety of a 999 year lease, the jokes on them.

There is never a “lease” mentioned anywhere in the Text.  The Text’s only statement is Molly saying the apartment is “hers” that she “owns” it.  Until otherwise stated that means there is no landlord tenant relationship here.  That the Svartalves actually transferred fee simple ownership to Molly.  Perhaps there is an easement for ingress in cases of emergency but Molly’s apartment isn’t a leasehold until we are told otherwise.