Is Murphy truly dead

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think the proscription on not going beyond the veil is that in almost every case it works out poorly trying to bring the dead back. You get it wrong and end up with Blamps, or go down the corpse taker route and seek to possess someone else with the ongoing body dysmorphia. The only route where it works out properly is uniting the correct soul with the correct body and I suspect the only way to do that is I think Soul Fire. It worked for Jesus, but I think the White God in whose sole gift Soul Fire is has laid limitations upon its use by Odin, they have to be superlative warriors and they cannot return to the mortal realm until lost from living memory.

The White God can therefore make a dispensation for Murphy when Jim he thinks it appropriate to do so.

If Odin dies the Einenjhar do as well, but Harry has Soul Fire as well and is not subject to the proscription that Odin has, and can bring back Murphy a second time, this time bound to his life, she would live as long as him,  one of her perennial worries.

Now the Soul Fire resurrection is a WOJ, Harry doesn’t know this yet.

And of course Harry gets to see Murphy die before his eyes AGAIN. Jim gets to write a second death scene for her. Irrististable.

[vincentric]

Maybe, maybe not... What if Odin merely has their body, but not their soul?  I don't really think being a cold blooded killer is the defining part of Murphy's soul..

Do you think Gard and Freydis are just cold blooded killers? Would a cold blooded killer be getting drunk on the aftermath of the battlefield to mourn? Murphy's sparring partner in GS sure seemed to be all there. The defining part of Murphy would be a warrior that doesn't shrink from confronting evil even when outclassed and outnumbered. If you assume Odin/Vadderung is a good guy, then that's the ultimate goal of the Einerjahr. The mercenary stuff is just practice to hone their skills with modern weapons and tactics. Monoc's deal with Marcone is for magical security. We never see them doing routine criminal stuff beyond Gard being present as a bodyguard.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

They are there for Ragnarok, the Mercenary work is to keep their hand in as warfare developes.

If Ragnarok is the BAT there isn’t time for Murphy and Hendrick’s to be lost from memory before Odin is destined to die, taking them with them. If Gard is aware of this possibility then she is truly grieving Hendick’s.

[Arjan]

Maybe, maybe not... What if Odin merely has their body, but not their soul? 

Then it is not an afterlife. Then she did not go there. Then the whole story makes no sense at all.

I don't really think being a cold blooded killer is the defining part of Murphy's soul..

That is not how Gard formulated it.

warriors who died for family, for duty, for love

Again in everything Gard says it is about her, not her body. And it is not about what she killed, it is about what she defended.

We have to follow Jim’s story here, not what we think we know about Valhalla.

[Basil]

Is Murphy dead?

Sort of, but she's off the board  -- considering how long many of the people that she associated with will live -- Molly, Harry, Thomas, Marconne, Maggie, Ramirez, Lara, etc. are effectively immortal, if not actually immortal.  Even if you take Thomas and Lara out of the list, chances are that one of these people is going to live for three, four maybe five centuries. 

[Mira]

We have to follow Jim’s story here, not what we think we know about Valhalla.

True, but ever stop to think Jim is telling the readers exactly what he means?  The rule that even the All Father can't break, "she won't return until she has faded from all living memory..."  In other words, neither she nor Hendricks are physically coming back into the story, ever.  That isn't to say he might change his mind, he sort of gives himself that option.. But then again, her story ran it's natural course in many ways..

[The_Sibelis]

I would rather it not. For one plain and specific reason. Harry's already had one "girl in the bathroom" trope done to him once, with Susan.Murphys death setting up the same sort of character growth for Dresden... Would just be overdone at this point.

[Arjan]

I would rather it not. For one plain and specific reason. Harry's already had one "girl in the bathroom" trope done to him once, with Susan.Murphys death setting up the same sort of character growth for Dresden... Would just be overdone at this point.

Jim might do a story from her POV but for all other purposes she is dead. Unless the apocalypse changes everything to such an extend that everything is possible. Jim might go completely crazy in the last books.

[Mira]

Then it is not an afterlife. Then she did not go there. Then the whole story makes no sense at all.

Maybe it doesn't because it doesn't follow Murphy's faith, instead she was hijacked after her death, body and all. 

That is not how Gard formulated it.

Perhaps not, but the warriors chosen were chosen because they were very good at what they did in life..

Jim might do a story from her POV but for all other purposes she is dead. Unless the apocalypse changes everything to such an extend that everything is possible. Jim might go completely crazy in the last books.

Maybe Harry finds her diary or something of that nature, going through her stuff, a chore that has to be done after one dies.

[Arjan]

Maybe it doesn't because it doesn't follow Murphy's faith, instead she was hijacked after her death, body and all. 

Hades got Deirdre. There are exceptions.

I also remember woj about it. Sometimes you do not end up where you think you should end up and Odin can bargain for you.

Perhaps not, but the warriors chosen were chosen because they were very good at what they did in life..

That too.

Maybe Harry finds her diary or something of that nature, going through her stuff, a chore that has to be done after one dies.

[The_Sibelis]

Jim might do a story from her POV but for all other purposes she is dead. Unless the apocalypse changes everything to such an extend that everything is possible. Jim might go completely crazy in the last books.

na, just cause the all father can't do something doesn't mean it can't be done. Death is a spectrum, and I get the feeling Odin took her just to keep her in the right range of it. Odin can revive people because he has soul fire... So exactly what would stop Harry from doing it? Except knowledge directly.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

And Bonea would have knowledge of Soul Fire, so all Harry has to do is ask her.

Which he won’t.

[Mira]

And Bonea would have knowledge of Soul Fire, so all Harry has to do is ask her.

Which he won’t.

Even if he did use it, since he isn't a god, wouldn't that be an abuse of his gift? 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It depends if he is doing so in accordance with the divine plan of the White God. Odin is, in creating the a Einenjhar, Harry cannot do so without abusing it for a personal whim, so he would need some greater purpose, otherwise Murphy dying with Odin at Ragnarok would go to her just reward for her faith and as a former Knight.

Harry would have to take on the Angel of Death, who he has already met in Ghost Story. Foreshadowing?

[Mira]

auth,or=Conspiracy Theorist link=topic=54523.msg2351055#msg2351055 date=1637170611]

It depends if he is doing so in accordance with the divine plan of the White God. Odin is, in creating the a Chekov's gunHarry cannot do so without abusing it for a personal whim, so he would need some greater purpose, otherwise Murphy dying with Odin at Ragnarok would go to her just reward for her faith and as a former Knight.

Harry would have to take on the Angel of Death, who he has already met in Ghost Story. Foreshadowing?

The Angel of Death already did his job, Murphy is gone, whether he had anything to do with the
body pick up or not.. Murphy was cold and dead when it happened, not like Harry who wasn't all dead when he fell into the ice water and Mab's arms.  If Murphy goes to her just reward after Odin is done with her, it's Heaven, not Harry.   The whole debate is muddled, given her history as knight and her faith, I really doubt that she'd choose to go to Valhalla.. That blows out of the water the premise of her faith, as a good Christian she'd want her soul to go to Heaven, not hang out drinking ale in a warrior's paradise so she can fight and kill at a later date for a god she doesn't believe in.