Why didn’t Molly go to Eb or Listens to Wind as Harry suggested?

[Arjan]

Molly had agency sure but Ghost Story is not about that, it is about Harry and Harry is responsible for how he influenced Molly.

And Harry asked her to do it. It does not mean she is not responsible but it does mean Harry is responsible too. It is not a binary thing.

[Arjan]

Why would she be, if it wasn't her doing that he was dead.  All she needed was another wizard to step forward to take up her apprenticeship.  None did.  Instead of looking the other way as things got worse for her, if Carlos had captured her, soul gazed her and then offered to take Harry's place.
Truth is no one gave a damn about the fate of Molly, only Mab for very selfish reasons.

But until someone took up that responsibility and that was recognized by the rest of the council. Someone who was prepared to risk death for her sake like Harry did. Until that time she was just a warlock on the run not because something she did in changes but because something she did in Proven Guilty. Carlos had his orders.

We can not expect anyone else to take up that burden. The chances for example that Eb would just have executed her are pretty high, she was not her granddaughter after all and he can be like that. The chances are that if she met somebody else first were even bigger.

[Mira]

But until someone took up that responsibility and that was recognized by the rest of the council. Someone who was prepared to risk death for her sake like Harry did. Until that time she was just a warlock on the run not because something she did in changes but because something she did in Proven Guilty. Carlos had his orders.

We can not expect anyone else to take up that burden. The chances for example that Eb would just have executed her are pretty high, she was not her granddaughter after all and he can be like that. The chances are that if she met somebody else first were even bigger.

So Molly was doomed in any case, even if she never blocked his memories, he'd still be Winter Knight and she'd be on her own.  But that is the whole point isn't it?  Do you think that either Listens or Eb would have stepped up to take responsibility for her?  Listens maybe, but not Eb. The situation with young Harry wasn't a simple clear case of taking on a would be warlock apprentice with him.  Yes, Harry was under the Doom, and Eb had orders to kill him if he slipped, but nothing is said about Eb also getting the chop.

Molly had agency sure but Ghost Story is not about that, it is about Harry and Harry is responsible for how he influenced Molly.

I also think that is over stated..  1] If Harry knew Molly had talent do you think he would have acted differently around her? 2] Charity kept it all under wraps thinking Molly's talent would just go away if she did or said nothing about it.  Worse she aggravated Molly's interest in Harry by constantly harping on the evils of magic, in other words, forbidden fruit.  Also do you think Harry's "influence" level on her would had been the same if she never had any magical talent? 

And Harry asked her to do it. It does not mean she is not responsible but it does mean Harry is responsible too. It is not a binary thing.

Yes, and no, Harry was totally messed up mentally at that moment, all he could think about is saving his little girl and then the drastic move of killing himself so as not to become Mab's monster. He really cannot be held responsible, add in the poison of Lasciel's words "and it is all your fault!" Dialing emotions and desire for self loathing up to about 10.  I think all of the above is the view that Uriel took.

With Molly it is also a case of yes and no, she was an adult, she was also raised in a strict Catholic home which aggravated her guilt to about 10 after the fact.  On one hand she was helping the man she loved to kill himself, understood why he wanted to kill himself, knew she was the only one to help him kill himself, on the other hand suicide in one of the big no, no's sin wise in the faith she was brought up in.. So in for a penny in for a pound as they say, perhaps she already saw herself as damned so why not go full warlock?  Also considering her emotions when she helped Harry she cannot be held fully responsible either. 

Both needed an intervention to talk common sense, but there was no one at the time.

 

[Arjan]

So Molly was doomed in any case, even if she never blocked his memories, he'd still be Winter Knight and she'd be on her own. 

Harry being winter knight does not change his status with the white council and Molly’s status with Harry and the white council automatically. Everything would still have been negotiable and that with Mab’s shadow over it.

But that is the whole point isn't it?  Do you think that either Listens or Eb would have stepped up to take responsibility for her?

And had Molly any reason to think they would? I think mostly no on all accounts.

Listens maybe, but not Eb. The situation with young Harry wasn't a simple clear case of taking on a would be warlock apprentice with him.  Yes, Harry was under the Doom, and Eb had orders to kill him if he slipped, but nothing is said about Eb also getting the chop.I also think that is over stated..  1] If Harry knew Molly had talent do you think he would have acted differently around her?

If he had known earlier he would have discussed it with Michael and they would have watched her more closely. Michael always has a good influence on Harry so I think it would have ended much better and the  white council would not have sentenced her.

2] Charity kept it all under wraps thinking Molly's talent would just go away if she did or said nothing about it.  Worse she aggravated Molly's interest in Harry by constantly harping on the evils of magic, in other words, forbidden fruit.  Also do you think Harry's "influence" level on her would had been the same if she never had any magical talent? 

No, she would have found other examples.

Yes, and no, Harry was totally messed up mentally at that moment, all he could think about is saving his little girl and then the drastic move of killing himself so as not to become Mab's monster. He really cannot be held responsible, add in the poison of Lasciel's words "and it is all your fault!"

Not completely responsible maybe but it only needed a small push, it is not like it was out of character as Michael and Thomas knew.

Dialing emotions and desire for self loathing up to about 10.  I think all of the above is the view that Uriel took.

Uriel had two views. Yes the fallen was to blame so he could do something about it but also Harry had some problems the fallen had exploited and something had to be done about that.

With Molly it is also a case of yes and no, she was an adult, she was also raised in a strict Catholic home which aggravated her guilt to about 10 after the fact.  On one hand she was helping the man she loved to kill himself, understood why he wanted to kill himself, knew she was the only one to help him kill himself, on the other hand suicide in one of the big no, no's sin wise in the faith she was brought up in.. So in for a penny in for a pound as they say, perhaps she already saw herself as damned so why not go full warlock?  Also considering her emotions when she helped Harry she cannot be held fully responsible either. 

Both needed an intervention to talk common sense, but there was no one at the time.

There were a lot of people with common sense around but they were kept out of it. Thomas, Michael, Karin, ......

[morriswalters]

The only one who had made a promise to Molly was Harry.  He broke it, because his daughter was more important then his promise.  You can debate the morality of that, but it is what he did.

As a discussion of what the author is writing, this has been ongoing since the first book.  Harry isn't reliable. He doesn't keep his word. He'll promise anything to get what he wants and then try to get out of it. 

Jim has Murphy tell him at one point, that he should spend more time not getting into these messes rather than trying to get out of them, referring to his deals with Lea and Mab. And it isn't just Mab.  He hires Kincaid without any idea of where the money is going to come from to pay him.  Then Thomas has to bail him out. As a character I wouldn't loan him money or let him sleep over at my house.

[Arjan]

That is another thing. Harry abused the teacher pupil relationship. That is very serious. He should have teacher her a different lesson.

In some ways Lea did a better job as she pointed out to Harry.

[Mira]

Harry being winter knight does not change his status with the white council and Molly’s status with Harry and the white council automatically. Everything would still have been negotiable and that with Mab’s shadow over it.

Would it?  With Mab's shadow hanging over everything?  You really think that would work out well?

And had Molly any reason to think they would? I think mostly no on all accounts.

It would matter if Molly had a reason, but she got her answer at her trial.

If he had known earlier he would have discussed it with Michael and they would have watched her more closely. Michael always has a good influence on Harry so I think it would have ended much better and the  white council would not have sentenced her.

But he didn't know, did he?  Charity made sure he didn't know, she would have overruled any discussion about Molly's talents between Michael and Harry.  Plus that little rebellious streak was in Molly from the get go, that is what got her into trouble in the first place.

No, she would have found other examples.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean that they'd be good ones.  Molly went out of her way to do opposite of what her mother especially wanted.. Call it a teenage thing.  Considering who she ran with, without talent she still could have gotten into a lot of trouble.

Uriel had two views. Yes the fallen was to blame so he could do something about it but also Harry had some problems the fallen had exploited and something had to be done about that.

Not just exploited, Lasciel knew Harry intimately, her shadow lived in his head for many years, she knew exactly what buttons to push. 

There were a lot of people with common sense around but they were kept out of it. Thomas, Michael, Karin, ......

Let's not forget that Changes is all about Harry going to these people for help to save little Maggie, but it wasn't enough, they had no answers.. He even summoned an archangel to plea for help, an old Norse god, in the end he was left with the least bad of several bad options.  The only Winter Knight in action he ever witnessed was Slate, and what he had heard of others, Bob had told him.  Harry didn't want to become a monster.  Ironic that Carlos now calls him a monster, but I digress.  Uriel tells him before he makes his decision that if he strays from the path out of love, he can get back on the path.. But did Harry really have time to ponder that?  Eb tells him at C.I. that Mab cannot really force him to go against his will, but the dye had already been cast by then.. Uriel's seven words were great and made Harry feel better, but the damage had already been done. 

The only one who had made a promise to Molly was Harry.  He broke it, because his daughter was more important then his promise.  You can debate the morality of that, but it is what he did.

Yeah, letting your daughter die, your grandfather die, and yourself die, for a promise... Morally that can be argued several ways depending on point of view and belief system.  However to think Molly wasn't unaware of what she did, is a mistake, she knew exactly what she was doing and knew that sometimes promises have to be broken.  She made the decision she made just like when she went into the heads of her friends to cure their drug addiction. 

As a discussion of what the author is writing, this has been ongoing since the first book.  Harry isn't reliable. He doesn't keep his word. He'll promise anything to get what he wants and then try to get out of it. 

That simply isn't true, if it were, he would have taken up a coin a long time ago and Michael wouldn't be his friend.

Jim has Murphy tell him at one point, that he should spend more time not getting into these messes rather than trying to get out of them, referring to his deals with Lea and Mab. And it isn't just Mab.  He hires Kincaid without any idea of where the money is going to come from to pay him.  Then Thomas has to bail him out. As a character I wouldn't loan him money or let him sleep over at my house

Um, he was a scared 16 year old kid when he made his deal with Lea.. Mab bought the contract, Murphy has no clue about any of that, she thinks she does, but she has no clue how that even works.  Which deal?  The one to clear out Mavra's nest or the one to shoot him through the heart?  If he is so untrustworthy how is it he ends up with the Spear of Destiny? 

at is another thing. Harry abused the teacher pupil relationship. That is very serious. He should have teacher her a different lesson.

He may have been wrong about some stuff, but he didn't abuse the teach/pupil relationship.  He never tried to exploit or abuse her.  Taught her a different lesson?  About what?  Let us not forget he wasn't the only teacher in her life, she had her parents, Michael and Charity, Father Forthill, she was around Murphy, other Holy Knights, on the whole a pretty solid foundation.

In some ways Lea did a better job as she pointed out to Harry.

Yes, and the Fae are tricky, they like to twist, Lea did a good job in preparing Molly to be a Lady, that was never Harry's goal.  His goal was to mostly to help her keep her head and his along with it.
Lea didn't give a damn if what she taught Molly may cost her her head.

[morriswalters]

Jim set the stakes for Harry's obligation to Molly, life or death.  If Harry didn't want the obligation he should have let Molly die in Proven Guilty.  The end result would have been the same.

[SerScot]

Molly had agency sure but Ghost Story is not about that, it is about Harry and Harry is responsible for how he influenced Molly.

And Harry asked her to do it. It does not mean she is not responsible but it does mean Harry is responsible too. It is not a binary thing.

Honestly, the laser focus on Harry hurts the series.  Particularly the last two books they would have been much better had it been from multiple POVs.  A battle of that scale seems small when seen through the eyes of one person.

[Mira]

Jim set the stakes for Harry's obligation to Molly, life or death.  If Harry didn't want the obligation he should have let Molly die in Proven Guilty.  The end result would have been the same.

He did his best with in his capacity..  He was her mentor, not her parents, her thoughts and attitudes were shaped before he became her teacher.  None of us is perfect, especially Harry, on the contrary he is all too human.  It is a wonder really that Harry functions at all, from the age of 6 until he was sixteen he wasn't loved, he got no moral guidance, no support.  Harry learned one lesson well, that was to survive. 

Molly assisting Harry's suicide or going to C.I. even though he told her not to go, was done out of love and her part.  Not unlike Murphy leaving Art's Place in Battle Ground after Harry told her to stay there to protect those who had taken shelter.  She did that out of love also, and the desire to be part of the action, did Harry fail there as well because she didn't listen to him?  Yes, Harry took on obligations to Molly and he failed with some of them.  But it is also true that Molly isn't some fragile little doll being manipulated, she made her own choices, early on. 

[Arjan]

Honestly, the laser focus on Harry hurts the series.  Particularly the last two books they would have been much better had it been from multiple POVs.  A battle of that scale seems small when seen through the eyes of one person.

Multiple POV tends to break the story. I want to skip chapters to continue with the POV I was reading.

[Arjan]

Would it?  With Mab's shadow hanging over everything?  You really think that would work out well?

The Gatekeeper saw no problem in Harry being the winter knight. Molly would have had a few years extra until Harry got into trouble with the council. Enough time maybe to become a wizard herself or arrange something else.

It would matter if Molly had a reason, but she got her answer at her trial.But he didn't know, did he?  Charity made sure he didn't know, she would have overruled any discussion about Molly's talents between Michael and Harry. 

The question was what if Harry knew? Michael is not stupid. He would have had a discussion with his wife and they would come up with something better than ignoring it.

Plus that little rebellious streak was in Molly from the get go, that is what got her into trouble in the first place.

Sure but ignoring it is always worse. Some things were drilled into her and difficult to ignore by her. She did stay a virgin and she did not use heroine for example. They could have tried the same thing with the seven laws. It would not have been automatically hopeless.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean that they'd be good ones.  Molly went out of her way to do opposite of what her mother especially wanted.. Call it a teenage thing. 

Sure but a combination of Harry and Michael could have prevented things in an earlier stage, that was the question I was answering.

Considering who she ran with, without talent she still could have gotten into a lot of trouble.

Sure but not with the council so no beheading. She did have some boundaries so there was a good chance she would recover from it. 

Not just exploited, Lasciel knew Harry intimately, her shadow lived in his head for many years, she knew exactly what buttons to push.

But the buttons were there in his nature. None of his friends who knew him best were really surprised.

Let's not forget that Changes is all about Harry going to these people for help to save little Maggie, but it wasn't enough, they had no answers.. He even summoned an archangel to plea for help, an old Norse god, in the end he was left with the least bad of several bad options.  The only Winter Knight in action he ever witnessed was Slate, and what he had heard of others, Bob had told him.  Harry didn't want to become a monster.  Ironic that Carlos now calls him a monster, but I digress.  Uriel tells him before he makes his decision that if he strays from the path out of love, he can get back on the path.. But did Harry really have time to ponder that?  Eb tells him at C.I. that Mab cannot really force him to go against his will, but the dye had already been cast by then.. Uriel's seven words were great and made Harry feel better, but the damage had already been done.  Yeah, letting your daughter die, your grandfather die, and yourself die, for a promise... Morally that can be argued several ways depending on point of view and belief system.  However to think Molly wasn't unaware of what she did, is a mistake, she knew exactly what she was doing and knew that sometimes promises have to be broken.  She made the decision she made just like when she went into the heads of her friends to cure their drug addiction. 

Not the point. This is about Harry. That a person has free will is never an argument to tempt or ask that person to do something wrong and also not a cop out for you when you asked it. Especially if you have influence over and responsibility for that person and Harry had both.

That is what con men do. They find a soft target and they will tell you it is their fault because they are stupid and greedy but that does not absolve them. There are always people to abuse.

That simply isn't true, if it were, he would have taken up a coin a long time ago and Michael wouldn't be his friend.

Harry has potential and can be saved but his road to hell is still open. Exactly the kind of person Michael wants to help.

Um, he was a scared 16 year old kid when he made his deal with Lea.. Mab bought the contract, Murphy has no clue about any of that, she thinks she does, but she has no clue how that even works.  Which deal?  The one to clear out Mavra's nest or the one to shoot him through the heart?  If he is so untrustworthy how is it he ends up with the Spear of Destiny? 

Because Nicodemus did not. Moral perfection was not part of the deal.

He may have been wrong about some stuff, but he didn't abuse the teach/pupil relationship.  He never tried to exploit or abuse her. 

He avoided one form of abuse but not all of them. Abuse is not always about force either. Enlisting her to arrange his suicide is a form of abuse of that relation. At some level she just wanted to please her teacher.

Taking her to CI was another one. He did not even warn her.

Taught her a different lesson?  About what?  Let us not forget he wasn't the only teacher in her life, she had her parents, Michael and Charity, Father Forthill, she was around Murphy, other Holy Knights, on the whole a pretty solid foundation.

All those other teachers had their own responsibilities to her.

Yes, and the Fae are tricky, they like to twist, Lea did a good job in preparing Molly to be a Lady, that was never Harry's goal.  His goal was to mostly to help her keep her head and his along with it.
Lea didn't give a damn if what she taught Molly may cost her her head.

[Mira]

The Gatekeeper saw no problem in Harry being the winter knight. Molly would have had a few years extra until Harry got into trouble with the council. Enough time maybe to become a wizard herself or arrange something else.

But that is Rashid, who sees things differently, at Molly's trial he is the only one until the rest returned that didn't just rubber stamp her execution.  And I doubt that he voted for Harry's expulsion from the Council, most likely wasn't even there.  Would she have had those extra years?  Woulda, shoulda, coulda, that is hypothetical, in Turn Coat she had already back slid once, and both her and Harry could have lost their heads except Morgan and Luccio didn't turn her in.  It wasn't what Harry was teaching, or how he was teaching, or worry about her beloved Harry losing his head as well, none of that stopped her from violating the Law when she thought she was right.  It could simply be that the Merlin was right, the slippery slope to warlockhood is steep and almost impossible to come back from.

The question was what if Harry knew? Michael is not stupid. He would have had a discussion with his wife and they would come up with something better than ignoring it.
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Michael knew that his wife had talent once, I cannot believe he didn't give it a thought on whether or not that trait could be handed down to one of his kids.  Perhaps he thought if he raised them to be God fearing with in the Faith, there wouldn't be a problem.  We've no answer to that question, except neither he nor Charity discussed this at any time with Harry.  But then I remember a time, and there are still are people out there who think if you teach sex education that it only encourages
kids to have sex..   

Sure but ignoring it is always worse. Some things were drilled into her and difficult to ignore by her. She did stay a virgin and she did not use heroine for example. They could have tried the same thing with the seven laws. It would not have been automatically hopeless.

But apparently they didn't, I am not even sure that either Charity or Michael know what the Seven Laws are, their focus was the Ten Commandments.  And you are right Molly believes in them, that is what damaged her when she assisted Harry's suicide.  Her heart and mind agreed with what Harry wanted, that is why she did it, however her conscience tore her apart because assisting a suicide goes so against the Faith she was raised in.  Which brings up yet another point, why didn't she go to her father and mother, or Father Forthill after Harry died and confess what she had done and why she did it.  They could have helped her more than Eb or even Listens to Wind, once her head was back on straight, then Michael himself could have taken her to the Council and plea that someone step forward to either test her to be a full wizard or finish her apprenticeship. 

Sure but a combination of Harry and Michael could have prevented things in an earlier stage, that was the question I was answering.
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Could have, but prevention only works when you understand what it is you are trying to prevent.  We know from Proven Guilty that Harry had no clue as to whether any of the Carpenter kids had talent, and because he was never told about Charity no reason to suspect it.  All Charity knew was when she was Molly's age her talent showed itself and she went down a very dark path.  I'd go so far as to say if it weren't that dragon and Michael coming along to kill it and her falling in love with him, she could have lost her own head long ago.  She isn't a stupid woman, however out of fear and ignorance she did the worst thing possible for her children, hoping that if she kept it to herself the talent wouldn't rear it's head.  This would have happened even if the Carpenters had never met Harry, with perhaps a worse conclusion, because the talent is in the genes not the environment.

Sure but not with the council so no beheading. She did have some boundaries so there was a good chance she would recover from it.
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True, no beheading, but the streets of Chicago are rough places, a lot of ugly things can happen to runaways who take to the streets.  She wouldn't have been the first nor sadly the last to be killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or raped etc, her up bringing wouldn't save her from those things.

But the buttons were there in his nature. None of his friends who knew him best were really surprised.
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Of course they weren't, we all have buttons that others who know us well can push and do.  Yes, his friends may have known about them, but because they were his friends they didn't try to manipulate him by pushing them.  Lasciel did, that is why it was such a big deal when Harry threw off her Shadow, in the end he resisted the button pushing.  She was only really successful when he was hurt and desperate, and then she did it out of revenge, she wanted him dead... She knows Harry's over developed conscience, hurt, so much on the line, he is helpless to do anything, "and it is all your fault!"

Not the point. This is about Harry. That a person has free will is never an argument to tempt or ask that person to do something wrong and also not a cop out for you when you asked it. Especially if you have influence over and responsibility for that person and Harry had both.

Did he really?  Perhaps in her teenage mind Harry was some kind of hero, but then so was her father.  That was no more Harry's fault than it is Michael's.  When Harry was at the Carpenters recovering from injuries it was because he and Michael had fought together to save some portion of the world from something.  Heck they named their youngest son after him.  However Harry wasn't at the Carpenters on a daily basis, he didn't see them much socially, his impression was that Charity didn't like him so he seldom visited the house.  Go back and read the passages when he and young Molly interacted, Harry never overtly or covertly tried to influence her..  The BIG THING is he was kept IGNORANT of her mother's history, so he had no reason to look for talent.  Molly didn't attempt cute magical parlor tricks around him, she didn't suddenly become Wonder Woman on the play ground.  Harry only saw her as a nice intelligent kid who helped her mother raise her younger bothers and sisters.  And even if he had been able to spot her talent before it all went wrong, would Charity have allowed him to either begin her training or get another better qualified wizard who could?  Michael might have gone along with it, but what of Charity?  She only went along with it after the horse had left the barn and her daughter's head was in real jeopardy.

That is what con men do. They find a soft target and they will tell you it is their fault because they are stupid and greedy but that does not absolve them. There are always people to abuse.

But Harry never tried to con Molly, he didn't preplan his suicide thus grooming Molly to assist him..  She got a real dose of reality at her trial, she knew what was at stake when she attempted to go into Luccio and Morgan's minds.. She didn't do that because Harry groomed her to do that or abused her so she'd do that.  She did it because she still suffered from the black magic addiction that ultimately creates a warlock.  That is why it is so hard to rehab one.

Harry has potential and can be saved but his road to hell is still open. Exactly the kind of person Michael wants to help.
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Yes, and it is thus for all of us.. We all have free will and make choices, and sometimes that road is paved with good intentions that leads to hell.

Because Nicodemus did not. Moral perfection was not part of the deal.

I'm not so sure about that, remember what Hades said about the Artifacts, they only end up in the hands of those who pass the test. Morality could very well be part of it,Nic was lying to begin with, he willingly sacrificed his daughter so he could gain his prize.. Ever stop to think that requiring a blood sacrifice was part of the test? God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac, and he was willing to go along with it.. However an angel stopped him when he was willing to do that. The point is that Nic was willing to sacrifice his daughter, not to prove his love of God but to gain a prize for power, then he lied to her, saying in Hades her soul wouldn't face judgement or punishment from the Almighty.

He avoided one form of abuse but not all of them. Abuse is not always about force either. Enlisting her to arrange his suicide is a form of abuse of that relation. At some level she just wanted to please her teacher.

You know as well as I that it was a lot more complicated than that.  There are mitigating factors, i.e. Harry's state of mind, he was hurt, a Fallen Angel had just whispered that it was all his fault, he was being forced into becoming what he didn't want to be, a monster.  There was no one to tell him that becoming Winter Knight wouldn't necessarily make him a monster. Uriel could have, but he didn't.. So he thought of the one way out of it, death, and the only person who could help him fool Mab was Molly.  Would he have done it had he realized what kind of harm he was doing to her? I won't say that he wouldn't have,but he may have explained it better to her in order for her to make her decision. People assist the suicide of their loved ones every day,why? Because they want to end their suffering. Some do suffer the damage of conscience like Molly did, and others never lose a moments sleep over it. The point is they too were asked, did the loved one who asked them abuse them by asking?

All those other teachers had their own responsibilities to her.

Yes, and it is the sum of all those teachers, not just Harry..  He should have let them cut off her head because he failed some of his responsibilities later to her?  Really?  She was in the position to lose her head before Harry ever was her teacher, that damage had already been done.  She understood the stakes once he became her teacher, the point is, saving her from the chop gave her a chance.  Not unlike the Holy Knights, their job is giving a chance for redemption, but the redeeming part is up to the Denarian who gives up the coin and given another chance at life.  Harry saved her head the first time, but rest was really up to Molly.

[morriswalters]

Nothing that anybody else did or didn't do has anything to do with Harry's obligation.  Nor does it have anything to do with Molly's agency.  Harry failed his obligation to Molly. It doesn't matter if he asked and she acquiesced.  He shouldn't have asked. It's that simple. 

Molly can choose to go to hell by her own free will. But Harry had no right to use his position to push her.

Honestly, the laser focus on Harry hurts the series.  Particularly the last two books they would have been much better had it been from multiple POVs.  A battle of that scale seems small when seen through the eyes of one person.

It might have been better if he had embraced the claustrophobia of combat.

[Mira]

Nothing that anybody else did or didn't do has anything to do with Harry's obligation.  Nor does it have anything to do with Molly's agency.  Harry failed his obligation to Molly. It doesn't matter if he asked and she acquiesced.  He shouldn't have asked. It's that simple. 

Molly can choose to go to hell by her own free will. But Harry had no right to use his position to push her.It might have been better if he had embraced the claustrophobia of combat.

You make it sound like Harry coldly and calculatingly put her in that position.  It didn't go down that way, plain and simple.  Harry was at the end of his rope, mentally, physically, emotionally, he was choosing death/suicide rather than become a monster.  However he couldn't do it alone.  Yes, it put Molly in a tough position, but to think she didn't understand and made her own choice, you are mistaken.. That is why she doesn't hold a grudge towards Harry.  Yes, he put her in a tough position so do a lot of desperate people who ask of us stuff that maybe they shouldn't.  However agreeing to it or not agreeing is her choice.. Yes, that was hard on her, but consider the alternative, if little Maggie, Harry, and Eb all died at once or Harry's worst fears about being Winter Knight came true and he ended up like Slate.. What would that do to her head if she had chosen to say, no..