Thomas's Cell

[Mira]

I see the humor of it, but if he don't have a Mantle how does he speak a modern language.

And thus we go round and round and get dizzy.

That is why the Star Trek or better DR Who explanation is a good work around, or good science fiction story for that matter Star Trek, implanted universal translator. DR Who, when traveling in time in the TARDIS, language where ever he/she and his/her companion goes the TARDIS translates the language automatically of the place where they land.  Alfred or the island does that automatically, keeps misunderstandings to a minimum, Alfred and or the Warden have to be able to understand what anyone trying to venture onto the island are saying.  So what ever language the "British Prisoner" is saying, Harry hears it in English, Thomas could very well also if it is cleared for him to listen to communication.

[morriswalters]

@Mira
I could make up several plausible ways that speech could be translated. That isn't my point. If the prisoner is some old moldy guy from way back when he would be just as unintelligible as Merlin.

[The_Sibelis]

I see the humor of it, but if he don't have a Mantle how does he speak a modern language.

And thus we go round and round and get dizzy.

well, he wasn't actually speaking so... What Harry heard was all technically a translation of thoughts. Almost like say, the outer gates are put into terms he can understand. Whoever it is has a rudimentary enough vocabulary to know "piss off", the puts him possibly around the Anglo-Saxon/gaol merger? The thoughts of someone who knows speech would be similar enough.

[Mira]

@Mira
I could make up several plausible ways that speech could be translated. That isn't my point. If the prisoner is some old moldy guy from way back when he would be just as unintelligible as Merlin.

Why would he, the same rules for translation apply.. If you go with the idea that Merlin is from Roman times, he could be speaking Latin, or if you go with him speaking Anglo-Saxon, it would be translated into Harry's head.  Having said that it doesn't mean it is Merlin, Harry hears Outsiders in an British accent..  Perhaps Jim just like to write them?  Harry also understands some of the bigger monsters in the prison if he cares to study them and their thoughts are communicated to him.. I doubt that they are intelligible, but still he understands them.

[groinkick]

@Mira
I could make up several plausible ways that speech could be translated. That isn't my point. If the prisoner is some old moldy guy from way back when he would be just as unintelligible as Merlin.

They are locked in crystal.  Their mouths are not moving, they aren't speaking in an audible way.  Any communication being done will be done telepathically which means that language probably doesn't matter.  If the person were Japanese, and only spoke Japanese, Harry could probably still understand them because he is getting the message they are trying to convey. 

At least that's how I think it works.  Remember that Chauncy, a demon in the Never Never spoke to Harry with a British accent as well.  Don't think Chauncy is British though.

Harry's mind might be causing him to hear it that way because on some level he's perceiving them as an aristocrat, and thinks of them having an accent like that.

[Mira]

They are locked in crystal.  Their mouths are not moving, they aren't speaking in an audible way.  Any communication being done will be done telepathically which means that language probably doesn't matter.  If the person were Japanese, and only spoke Japanese, Harry could probably still understand them because he is getting the message they are trying to convey. 

At least that's how I think it works.  Remember that Chauncy, a demon in the Never Never spoke to Harry with a British accent as well.  Don't think Chauncy is British though.

Harry's mind might be causing him to hear it that way because on some level he's perceiving them as an aristocrat, and thinks of them having an accent like that.

That makes sense as well, and yes, Jim must have a thing for British accents, or Harry does..

[morriswalters]

For Chauncy, the point is to disarm Harry.  For the English prisoner it has to be misdirection. Assume for the moment that it is some kind of universal translator, why would Harry hear it as anything other then the idiom he was raised with? And if Harry's brain is making it up again the same question. I'm calling Jim out on this one.  While I may have fell on my head as a child and damaged myself, I didn't do that much damage.  He's  hiding something.

[groinkick]

For Chauncy, the point is to disarm Harry.  For the English prisoner it has to be misdirection. Assume for the moment that it is some kind of universal translator, why would Harry hear it as anything other then the idiom he was raised with? And if Harry's brain is making it up again the same question. I'm calling Jim out on this one.  While I may have fell on my head as a child and damaged myself, I didn't do that much damage.  He's  hiding something.

Yeah, there is probably more to it than what I suggested.  That being said there is the chance that because of Harry's Intellectus, the universal translator is taking the origin of the person locked up, and giving them that accent for Harry (modern accent, not past).


On the other hand, if Harry really is hearing the person as they are, then it would indicate the prisoner is a more recent addition.  Probably from the last Warden and within the last 50 years or so (I thought someone pointed out the lingo used was pretty recent)

[Mira]

On the other hand, if Harry really is hearing the person as they are, then it would indicate the prisoner is a more recent addition.  Probably from the last Warden and within the last 50 years or so (I thought someone pointed out the lingo used was pretty recent)

Not necessarily, think in terms of reading a novel, as we read the words, pictures and sounds form in our brains interpreting what we read.  To us the characters appear as they are, but to someone else reading the exact same words, the picture and voice that the brain relays may be totally different.  Heck this very site is an example of that, we are all reading the same words, but we see them differently.   

[groinkick]

Not necessarily, think in terms of reading a novel, as we read the words, pictures and sounds form in our brains interpreting what we read.  To us the characters appear as they are, but to someone else reading the exact same words, the picture and voice that the brain relays may be totally different.  Heck this very site is an example of that, we are all reading the same words, but we see them differently.   

True.  I just reread it.  Considering the prisoner said "The way you novices always do" strongly suggests he's had experiences with many Wardens.  So been locked up a long time.

[Snark Knight]

On that basis I fancy Michael Scot/Scotus The Wizard of the North, nice dubious date and place of birth so he could given a Wizards lifespan have been around a couple of centuries earlier under a different name. Had a habit of wearing a skull cap made of iron (the perfect contraceptive for a Fae muse, or to stop his mind being read) and has links in folklore to the Redcap.

We know JB likes his pop culture references. Some heavyweight coming out of stasis and not understanding all the references to The Office that other characters are making would be a good gag.

[Mira]

True.  I just reread it.  Considering the prisoner said "The way you novices always do" strongly suggests he's had experiences with many Wardens.  So been locked up a long time.

Yup, he has been there for possibly eons.  Some things do point to him possibly being Merlin, though I think Jim is keeping his options open.
Many myths surrounding Merlin, one says he sleeps in a cave in Cornwall, England, some even say in crystal.  Bulfinch's Mythology has an intriguing blurb about Merlin being trapped in a thorn bush by the Lady of the Lake and he sleeps there still, "though his voice may sometimes be heard."  So no thorn bush, but our prisoner seems to sleep a lot, demands to be left alone to sleep, and is sometimes heard.  In fact he is the only prisoner that we know of that Harry has ever talked with.  He is imprisoned in a cave and in crystal, so a lot of "hint, hint" that it could be Merlin,  but they still may all add up to nothing.