Author Topic: Thomas's Cell  (Read 6597 times)

Offline seanham

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
Thomas's Cell
« on: October 15, 2021, 09:25:36 PM »
Quote
"Contemplation," I responded quietly. "He is to be shielded from any communication with other prisoners not enduring the same protocol."

Quote
"There was one prisoner held below in a kind of unique stasis, something that could most closely be considered sleep, though he could also awaken and perform limited communications for short periods of time."
Page 322 Peace Talks Hardback addition

On a recent re-read of PT, I came across these two almost through away lines, but I think they could have large story implications. I assume the original prisoner being held in status is the one from Skin Game. Assuming this is correct, then Thomas can talk with that prisoner. Will this be a good or bad thing for them both? What story things might come up because of it? Thoughts?


Offline The_Sibelis

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1036
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2021, 10:05:46 PM »
I think this is where the thing about DR not being able to permanently hold beings with free will comes into play. They'll certainly end up talking, the real question is who's going to influence who more and what that means when they get back into play. He'll probably impart some wisdom to Thomas and Thomas may revive his interest in the outside world enough to get him to come out.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2021, 12:17:35 AM »
If you're asking for speculation I'll give  you some.

If this was a hard scifi story I'd say that he was a sleeper. One who comes out periodically to check his ships status, do maintenance and then go back into stasis. Waiting for his ship to arrive at its destination. So who could that be?


Offline groinkick

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7556
  • Strike first. Strike Hard. No Mercy! - Cobra Kai
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2021, 02:33:14 AM »
Imagine if Thomas gets information that he realizes puts Harry in horrible danger (Stars and Stones, or being a Starborn, or both), but can't do anything.  Talk about torture.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Ed0517

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 610
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2021, 05:21:10 AM »
If you're asking for speculation I'll give  you some.

If this was a hard scifi story I'd say that he was a sleeper. One who comes out periodically to check his ships status, do maintenance and then go back into stasis. Waiting for his ship to arrive at its destination. So who could that be?

Maybe.... Merlin?

Prisoner sounds somewhat British. Doesn't try to ask his way out, or threaten. We don't know how/when/where Merlin died. Harry even said it at one point. Maybe he didn't.

Merlin built the place.

Merlin once carried one of the Swords - was it Amoracchius? Michael/Arthur's? 

Merlin founded the Council - Eb has his journals.

Merlin wakes every few years to see if he is needed. Checks around, goes back to bed.  Sleep time on DR doesn't count towards his age, it's stasis. Plus, wizards live a long time, and many accounts have Merlin as only partly human, he's a scion like Kincaid.

Marches out in the BAT? Merlin a Starborn?


Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24359
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2021, 11:04:22 AM »


Historically Merlin does sleep in a cave, versions vary, some say he is being held prisoner.  I've always speculated that he is Merlin.  One could speculate that after creating the prison, he looked back on his own life and actions and they came up short, so he "committed himself" to the prison, not unlike one does if one is insane for treatment.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2021, 01:28:16 PM »
Heinlein wrote a book called The Door Into Summer. The protagonist uses cold sleep to get to the future.  Finds that something he did indicates that he went to the past.  He goes to the past in a time machine and once more  cold sleeps his way back. One loop and out.

I think Harry is in that cell. He needs to be there because if it was known it might change the future in a way he couldn't predict. Vadderung probably knows, he hinted something like this in Cold Days when he say "Perhaps you already have." in response to the question of if Harry could stop the attack.

It would explain why Demonreach is in Lake Michigan near Chicago.  Why Harry felt the intellectus the first time he visited.  Why he was able to  bind Demonreach. Why Mab is fixated on Harry. Who was able to get past his Wards to fix LC.  And so on.

Offline seanham

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2021, 07:06:07 PM »
Hasn't it been stated several times by WOJ that the prisoner is not Merlin or Harry?

Offline CrusherJen

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2021, 07:54:45 PM »
We've been told it's not Merlin:

Quote
The original Merlin, does he sound British?
He’d probably sound so unintelligibly British that you wouldn’t be able to tell he was speaking English.  No, he’s not the guy in Demonreach.

Via https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-harrys-mortal-allies/

No word on if it's Harry... though I'm not sure why Harry would have an accent. IIRC, Chandler does, but I'd think Harry would recognize his voice, so it's probably not Chandler either.
"An errand is getting a tank of gas or picking up a carton of milk or something. It is not getting chased by flying purple pyromaniac gorillas hurling incendiary poo."   --from Blood Rites

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2021, 08:11:57 PM »
Jim is hoist on his own petard since another WOJ says that he would lie to protect the plot.

Language makes no difference at all.  Toot Toot can understand Russian.  So maybe the Mantle has potentials that Harry has not yet cracked. Otherwise what was Jim trying to accomplish with that tidbit? You know, introducing the idea that Toot can speak Russian, randomly, out of nowhere.


Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24359
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2021, 08:50:11 PM »
Jim is hoist on his own petard since another WOJ says that he would lie to protect the plot.

Language makes no difference at all.  Toot Toot can understand Russian.  So maybe the Mantle has potentials that Harry has not yet cracked. Otherwise what was Jim trying to accomplish with that tidbit? You know, introducing the idea that Toot can speak Russian, randomly, out of nowhere.
Also there is this, hasn't Harry mentioned that he hasn't gotten too far assessing the prisoners because too much of that kind of communication or contact can drive him insane, just a little of it and he has nightmares for days.  At least that is how I remember his explanation, anyway my point is, from this tidbit of information it appears that Harry doesn't have to know the language to understand the prisoners.  So the "British Prisoner, maybe Merlin, doesn't have to speak perfectly accented English for Harry to understand him in perfect English.  In other words there is a universal translator on the island, maybe one of Alfred's many jobs, whatever language the prisoners speak, Harry hears it in his mind as perfect English.


Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2021, 09:28:45 PM »
The English Prisoner is in my opinion Bob’s dad, WOJ has it is someone we have been introduced to in series, and that may be ALL that very brief exchange was set up to do, at least at this point, because all it is, is a bloody introduction.

I think it is likely a historical Wizard from a fair way back, an apprentice of the Merlin, who was around about 1,000 years ago (given Bob’s age) and hiding out because it was he who found out how to kill immortals (which is where Bob got the info from)that would have made him contemporaneous to Mab when she was the Lady. I don’t think Mab is Bob’s mum, I think Lea given she is a muse, inspiring a man to and early death and he was so excited to see her in GP.

On that basis I fancy Michael Scot/Scotus The Wizard of the North, nice dubious date and place of birth so he could given a Wizards lifespan have been around a couple of centuries earlier under a different name. Had a habit of wearing a skull cap made of iron (the perfect contraceptive for a Fae muse, or to stop his mind being read) and has links in folklore to the Redcap.

We have been given hints of Mab’s past in BG, but Scotus could know firsthand, and how the relationships Mab had with Lea and the Redcap began, and much of the early history of the Court including Tam Lin, Harry’s most illustrious predecessor as Winter Knight and how he got away. He would be made of pure exposition, and likely Eb’s grandfather/ great grandfather/ great great grandfather making Bob Harry’s uncle several times removed. Would Jim set up a joke with its denouement a couple of decades later? yes, definitely.

Of course Jim could be lying and it is the time looped Merlin who is also Future Harry, his denials have I believe always one or the other, not both at the same time.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24359
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2021, 10:55:45 PM »
Quote
Of course Jim could be lying and it is the time looped Merlin who is also Future Harry, his denials have I believe always one or the other, not both at the same time.

Or as the god of the Dresden Files, he is free to change his mind..

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2021, 11:02:43 PM »
I see the humor of it, but if he don't have a Mantle how does he speak a modern language.

And thus we go round and round and get dizzy.

Offline Ed0517

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 610
    • View Profile
Re: Thomas's Cell
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2021, 08:20:06 AM »
...so... when he gets to the reveal, he says "and Bob's your uncle!"?

( probably play better in the UK?)