Anyone catch "It" in Battle Ground?

[groinkick]

When you listen to Eb or Dresden talk about Black Court vampires they refer to them as "things" or "it", and not as a person.  Well when the BCV's had Dresden, one of the twins said "lets feed it to my sister", when talking about Harry.  Mavra refused saying that Harry's kind isn't for them but for Drakul. 

It's odd that he referred to Harry as "It".  Is this how they think of all humans, or is it because Harry is a Starborn?  Reminds me of when Harry first met Kincaid and Kincaid told Harry he was as much human as Harry was.

[Ed0517]

When you listen to Eb or Dresden talk about Black Court vampires they refer to them as "things" or "it", and not as a person.  Well when the BCV's had Dresden, one of the twins said "lets feed it to my sister", when talking about Harry.  Mavra refused saying that Harry's kind isn't for them but for Drakul. 

It's odd that he referred to Harry as "It".  Is this how they think of all humans, or is it because Harry is a Starborn?  Reminds me of when Harry first met Kincaid and Kincaid told Harry he was as much human as Harry was.

It may be "it" as in an animal - some of the WCV refer to humans as kine.

Kincaid may have been lying... or... didn't Nic, I think it was, talk about wizards as not human. They protect the humans but they are not really one of them? Also a remark about in a hundred years all his human friends will be dead, and he will just be getting to his prime? Maybe Kincaid sees wizards as mutations and not quite human?

[Mira]

It may be "it" as in an animal - some of the WCV refer to humans as kine.

I agree, humans as prey or as a food source, when we eat fish or meat we normally don't give
a second thought as to whether or not it came from a male or female creature.  A fish filet, or a steak, or a chop is an "it," not female or male.

[groinkick]

I agree, humans as prey or as a food source, when we eat fish or meat we normally don't give
a second thought as to whether or not it came from a male or female creature.  A fish filet, or a steak, or a chop is an "it," not female or male.

True but remember that it was also said "his kind aren't for us", referring to Starborn.  Something has to be different about Dresden.

[Mira]

True but remember that it was also said "his kind aren't for us", referring to Starborn.  Something has to be different about Dresden.

Maybe starborns aren't "its"?   Harry gets a little more respect because he is one.. Apparently his body essence is too rich for an ordinary Black Court vamp.

[Second Aristh]

Maybe starborns aren't "its"?   Harry gets a little more respect because he is one.. Apparently his body essence is too rich for an ordinary Black Court vamp.

I don't think it's that the blampires can't use Harry.  More like their boss has forbidden them from overly hurting any starborn.  A starborn is more cosmically significant than your run of the mill wizard, so Harry gets a modicum more respect.  Barely.

[groinkick]

Maybe starborns aren't "its"?   Harry gets a little more respect because he is one.. Apparently his body essence is too rich for an ordinary Black Court vamp.

Calling someone an "It" is because they are either alien to you, or below you (they aren't a person).  I don't think it's too rich for a Vamp.  I think it's an energy source that Drakul likes to feed on.

[Mira]

Calling someone an "It" is because they are either alien to you, or below you (they aren't a person).  I don't think it's too rich for a Vamp.  I think it's an energy source that Drakul likes to feed on.

Right.  That's what I said, but as a star born, Harry might be a step above and a "he" to feed the master, but too good for your ordinary vamp.

[LostInTime]

When you listen to Eb or Dresden talk about Black Court vampires they refer to them as "things" or "it", and not as a person.  Well when the BCV's had Dresden, one of the twins said "lets feed it to my sister", when talking about Harry.  Mavra refused saying that Harry's kind isn't for them but for Drakul. 

It's odd that he referred to Harry as "It".  Is this how they think of all humans, or is it because Harry is a Starborn?  Reminds me of when Harry first met Kincaid and Kincaid told Harry he was as much human as Harry was.

Blampires aren't people. They are demons who take over the body of a dead person. Wild Bill and Yoshi are dead. They've gone through that single person door to the other side. A Blampire is inhabiting their shell, the ultimate desecration of their memory.

[Mira]

Blampires aren't people. They are demons who take over the body of a dead person. Wild Bill and Yoshi are dead. They've gone through that single person door to the other side. A Blampire is inhabiting their shell, the ultimate desecration of their memory.

Yes, they are dead, but it isn't a simple matter of a vampire inhabiting the shell zombie-like, just enough of the original personality remains to torment those who knew them when they were an alive human. 

[groinkick]

Blampires aren't people. They are demons who take over the body of a dead person. Wild Bill and Yoshi are dead. They've gone through that single person door to the other side. A Blampire is inhabiting their shell, the ultimate desecration of their memory.

Something of the person remains.  For example one twin referred to the other as "my sister".  So the soul has gone on, but something of them remains. 

Also we don't know what they are.  White Court, and Red Court are connected to demons but my opinion is that the Black Court are different.  I think they are connected to the Outside.  It may be the case that when they are turned, they are twisted by the Outside into what they are.  Their shade is controlling a corpse (and a shade does have a persons personality), and empowered by Outside.

[The_Sibelis]

They're all demons, and probably all connected to the outside. Certainly Thomas's soul gaze would heavily imply that WCVs are.. I think BCVs are just the mirror image born into that person's old body. Nothing's exactly the same but they still have some semblance of who they were.

*Mmm odd thought that makes me wanna reread the scene, but perhaps the explanation for Pell's attacker and beings using mirrors had more layers to what it actually meant? The mirroring effect I theorize about for outsiders  was already explained and I didn't see it 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️
I'll have to look at the exact wording but "use mirrors as a gateway" or something to that effect could apply to much more than physical mirrors. Which we have a known case for the existence of...

[Mira]

They're all demons, and probably all connected to the outside. Certainly Thomas's soul gaze would heavily imply that WCVs are.. I think BCVs are just the mirror image born into that person's old body. Nothing's exactly the same but they still have some semblance of who they were.

I need to go back and read the scene as well, but what I remember is the vision of Thomas, the handsome strong young man and the tug of war between his spirit, the Hunger and the mirror image of a bespectacled stoop shouldered ordinary vanilla human that Thomas would be without the Hunger.. Or at least that is how I remember it, need to go back and read.
 

[Arjan]

It may be "it" as in an animal - some of the WCV refer to humans as kine.

Kincaid may have been lying... or... didn't Nic, I think it was, talk about wizards as not human. They protect the humans but they are not really one of them? Also a remark about in a hundred years all his human friends will be dead, and he will just be getting to his prime? Maybe Kincaid sees wizards as mutations and not quite human?

No, I think Kincaid was protesting against wizards not seeing him as human but seeing themselves as human and so superior to him. They can kill him without breaking the laws and so on. And they have  a soul and are more precious.

This while the border between human and non human is far more diffuse and fussy, grey. It is just where you draw the line.

[Arjan]

I don't think it's that the blampires can't use Harry.  More like their boss has forbidden them from overly hurting any starborn.  A starborn is more cosmically significant than your run of the mill wizard, so Harry gets a modicum more respect.  Barely.

Or he is just a more delicious morsel the boss wants to keep for himself itself.