Mother Winter Blackstaff Back

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I am not sure the Mothers can properly enter the world without breaking reality, it’s like Ferrovax, he extrudes his human form in, or like Vadderung who has deliberately limited himself.

I think the mantles were set up to make the Mothers powerful enough for full intellectus, the Queens just powerful enough to stride the Earth without breaking it, and the Ladies just powerful enough to be immortal. When created they had specific purposes in mind. Otherwise we see more limited Intellectus like the Archive (all recorded knowledge) Harry/Demonreach (the island) and Bob (porn), none of the members of the Accords we have seen have displayed Full  Intellectus, the only character likely to is Uriel. Even Anduriel doesn’t have it.

[The_Sibelis]

I am not sure the Mothers can properly enter the world without breaking reality, it’s like Ferrovax, he extrudes his human form in, or like Vadderung who has deliberately limited himself.

that's... What the mantles are for. To give them another, lesser form that doesn't break reality.

[morriswalters]

The Mothers can see the future, all of them.  For them to go into any one timeline is to be blind them to all of the others. This is how Mother Summer knew that Mab had ordered Maeve's death.

[The_Sibelis]

Can't be that easy to lose track of your multiversal self, otherwise Uriel would be doing it all the time. An he seems kinda important. (Now if giving Micheal his grace did that is a different story) metaphorically, I'd you dip your big toe into a pool, you don't loose track of everything around you, but if you submerged yourself..

[morriswalters]

Uriel may have answered that in Small Favor.

“Well,” he said, “I never been to much school, you understand. But seems to me that you assuming something you shouldn’t assume.”

“What’s that?” I asked.

“That God sees the world like you do. One thing at a time. From just one spot. Seems to me that He is supposed to be everywhere, know everything.” He put the lid back on the trash can. “Think about that. He knows what you’re feeling, how you’re hurting. Feels my pain, your pain, like it was His own.”

Pretty much out of the Christian playbook. Mathew 10:29. Or omniscience.

For the Mothers what I imagine when I think of it, is like looking at a very long wall.  The closer you get, the less you can see. You  have never seen the Mothers away from their cottage. Not even in an alternate form. Except when Mother Winter's arm pulled Harry through the bottom of his grave when he summoned her./shrug/

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The ‘pull in’ is about the amount the Mothers can manifest in the real world without reality breaking, but would not restrict Mother Winter retrieving the Blackstaff if she had a choice in the matter.

One thing which is WOJ is that there is only one Uriel and he exists simultaneously across the multiverse. Perhaps this is to prevent his presence breaking any one reality? His metaphysical weight is evenly distributed across the multiverse rather concentrated in one place, so can extrude in a real world of a universe because it is only a small part of him.

This would suggest that the Mothers are discrete to their universe, consistent with the Mantles being created relatively late in history, say the last few thousand years. On that basis there will be whole swathes of the multiverse where Winter and the Mothers do not exist, they are not therefore evenly distributed across the multiverse.Uriel created by the White God at the start of creation would be.

It’s space time and the rubber sheet and bowling ball all over again, but it’s metaphysical.

[Ed0517]

I think the Mothers may have interdimensional counterparts - they are likely usually the Queens moved to semiretirement - and we know Mab was once mortal. So the Queens likely were too, so each dimension can have varying queens, as they came from different mortals.  Heck, maybe some dimensions have kings....  Uriel started out an Archangel.

[The_Sibelis]

I think the Mothers may have interdimensional counterparts - they are likely usually the Queens moved to semiretirement - and we know Mab was once mortal. So the Queens likely were too, so each dimension can have varying queens, as they came from different mortals.  Heck, maybe some dimensions have kings....  Uriel started out an Archangel.

archangels and the mother's, per Woj, have only one distinct being that exists simultaneously in every timeline.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Mothers would certainly exist in all the universes where the Mantles exist, but the Courts and the Mantles are at most a couple of thousand years old, so this would only be a percentage of the Multiverse. Thus whilst there may be one of them, they are the Mothers over that percentage. Where the Fae and the Courts do not exist they have no reason to be, and there may be other beings occupying a similar position over a other local groups of universes. Conversely if their local group of universes succeeds in defeating the Outsiders it allows further branching of these universes and an expansion of their being. They are very pro Harry succeeding, even if they have a back up champion on another timeline where they exist because it means they start the next cycle at a much higher percentage of universes where they exist, more opportunity for branching of their universes, and their own personal growth.

Uriel has been described as being able to snuff out galaxies, his power runs through the multiverse, throughout each universe, including timelines where the solar system or Earth never coalesced, life never existed on Earth, humanity never evolved etc but life evolved on other worlds giving rise to alien champions totally apart from Earth all being watched and shepherded by Uriel and the other Archangels in the battle against the Outsiders. Earth is this local group ofuniverses battleground.

The White God and the Archangels are spread all over Creation from, well it’s creation. The Mothers would only exist over their little part of creation.

[The_Sibelis]

That's very assumptive of them NOT existing before giving the mantles, which is not the case. How the mother's appear is directly effected by the courts they have made/aligned themselves with, in other offshoots of reality where they broke off different pieces instead they still exist as their 'True' identity. Only how we perceive them changes. Indeed, I think that's something all multiversal beings share, and not just the outsiders that we know for sure of.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It is fairly clear that Mantles were made from the power of other entities including small ‘g’ gods, the beings upon whom the Mantles were bestowed existed before this, BUT it is doubtful these beings had full Intellectus, or multiversal manifestation because otherwise, why bother?

In other universes, yes these beings never pooled their power to create the Mantles and they may be more like Mab able to perceive and communicate with their variants in other universes, but not a single being manifesting in multiple universes.

The Mantles may also have been designed to prevent beings adopting Mantles being changed by perceptions of them by humanity, freezing their function and purpose. The Mothers are probably immune to this stuck in the Never Never away from human scrutiny, but not probably the Queens or Ladies more in the real world, the Mantles protect them from this.

Look at the Kringle Mantle, the Mantle protects Kringle from becoming the Coca Cola Santa, who frankly wouldn’t lead the Wild Hunt.

[morriswalters]

You don't need to worry about the branches the world isn't in. If you assume that the universe is the White Gods toy then it makes sense that he has intellectus with his toy.  Since he made it. But no matter where the outsiders might break in, all they need do is traverse the tree downwards to the root. The branches become fewer going back until you are left with nothing but the trunk. The Outer Gates would be at the one point where the Outsider space and the Universe touch.  And this is the Place the Queens defend.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Most likely one of the places defended by various defenders, we cannot presume this is the only such engagement in the multiverse, only the one putting this part of the multiverse at risk of sterilisation by the White God in the event of defeat becoming likely.

We have to presume Uriel is like one of those Chess Grandmasters, taking on 100 players in different matches simultaneously and Harry is a White Knight in only one of those games, but the one where defeat is most likely to be soonest unless there is a bit of nifty gameplay.

[The_Sibelis]

The Mothers would certainly exist in all the universes where the Mantles exist, but the Courts and the Mantles are at most a couple of thousand years old, so this would only be a percentage of the Multiverse. Thus whilst there may be one of them, they are the Mothers over that percentage.

uhh... The mother's existed pre mantle's, just not in their current identity, identity shaped by belief. MW is likely a beginning of time pillar, as would be the original MS. Creation and destruction are kinda key to reality. They exist, and they always exist in basically every reality. Now, in that reality next door, where Hinduism blew up. They more closely resemble Shiva and Vishnu. But that's a change of beliefs, not if beings.
There are no timelines where they don't exist, because they are part of the metaphysics that create reality, only their manifestation and degree of connectedness to reality changes.

[morriswalters]

Talking purely speculatively, why can't it be just one? If there are an infinite number then the game might be over over before it begins. The more gates the more likely that one will fall.  The math is fairly simple. So create one place and populate it with an appropriate cast of characters and the go.  In that scenario all the Mothers have to keep up with is the Human branches. Since all the fey come from human stock there you go.  I suspect angels guarded the border before Humans.  Just saying.