White Council Top Members

[Second Aristh]

  But in the end it isn't about one on one..  It is about leadership,  it is about those who will follow that lead.   That's what really scares the Senior Council, yeah, anyone one of them one on one is stronger than Harry and most likely could take him, but it isn't about that.  When the flying squid thingies were raising havoc when the battle begun, there were Senior Council members present, for all their personal power and knowledge they couldn't do squat in an effective manner to stop them.  Enter Harry, a word to his loyal Za'Gard, and they took them.. Same against Mavra and Drakul, yeah, one on one, they were screwed, three Wardens, killed or dispatched to another dimension.. But while it was bad, they didn't win, not because one of the wizards or the sash-quash was badder than the rest, but because of Harry's loyal little army, following orders to go and get the garlic..

By that logic, Harry is more powerful than Mab, Titania, the Erlking, and Odin combined because he was the only one that could take down Ethniu after they tried.  He'd be the most powerful wizard in the world by leaps and bounds.  That's not what this thread is about.  It's about where Harry ranks among wizards in a fair fight.

[Mira]

By that logic, Harry is more powerful than Mab, Titania, the Erlking, and Odin combined because he was the only one that could take down Ethniu after they tried.  He'd be the most powerful wizard in the world by leaps and bounds.  That's not what this thread is about.  It's about where Harry ranks among wizards in a fair fight.

He may be before it is over, especially if he is going to be among the leaders in the BAT.

[groinkick]

But that is part of it, isn't it?  Winning is a team effort, Harry has that kind of loyalty, Mavra never will.

No, it isn't.  The discussion was how Harry specifically, plus LtW, River Shoulders, and the wardens did vs Drakul and the Black Court Vampires.  The result was a loss.  "surviving is a win" was LtW referring to how he and River Shoulders did vs Drakul.  The vampires suffered no casualties while team Dresden lost people (who are now probably vampires). 

Also as I stated previously, Harry lost.  He was dead to rights and got rescued.  Being rescued by someone isn't a victory for you.  If I was being held hostage and police saved me, it wouldn't be my victory. 

So Harry and the Wardens got beat by the BCV's. 

[Mira]

No, it isn't.  The discussion was how Harry specifically, plus LtW, River Shoulders, and the wardens did vs Drakul and the Black Court Vampires.  The result was a loss.  "surviving is a win" was LtW referring to how he and River Shoulders did vs Drakul.  The vampires suffered no casualties while team Dresden lost people (who are now probably vampires). 

Also as I stated previously, Harry lost.  He was dead to rights and got rescued.  Being rescued by someone isn't a victory for you.  If I was being held hostage and police saved me, it wouldn't be my victory. 

So Harry and the Wardens got beat by the BCV's.

Yeah, they took losses, but they weren't all wiped out.  I think a "win" as far as Mavra and Drakul are concerned is a dead and turned Harry.. They didn't get that.

[Second Aristh]

No, it isn't.  The discussion was how Harry specifically, plus LtW, River Shoulders, and the wardens did vs Drakul and the Black Court Vampires.  The result was a loss.  "surviving is a win" was LtW referring to how he and River Shoulders did vs Drakul.  The vampires suffered no casualties while team Dresden lost people (who are now probably vampires). 

Also as I stated previously, Harry lost.  He was dead to rights and got rescued.  Being rescued by someone isn't a victory for you.  If I was being held hostage and police saved me, it wouldn't be my victory. 

So Harry and the Wardens got beat by the BCV's.

The wardens did manage to take down a couple blampires from the large group of them before Harry pays attention to them again.  At least, they don't get mentioned again.  Your main point stands, though.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I'd put Cowl Senior Council level as well.

Mavra was the drummer so weakest of Drakuls entourage.

The technical term is “the Ringo”.

[Mira]

The technical term is “the Ringo”.

Or a "Hard Day's Night.."

[morriswalters]

Just out of curiosity, exactly how do wizards fight fair?  Given the rules, assuming you aren't the Black Staff, you can't kill with magic, you can't enthrall with magic.  So  what do you do? If it's down to fisticuffs Harry tags everybody shorter and lighter than he is. If it comes down to ordinance, watch Carlos, he carries grenades. Harry put down Corpse Taker with a 44 to the back of the head.  Kincaid killed Harry with a sniper rifle.  And the Red Court used sarin gas to kill thousands including wizards.

In the face off with the Black Court nobody won.  Everybody called it a day and blew the vicinity. Winning involves getting whatever prize you were playing for. It looks like nobody got everything they wanted.

Was Drakul trying to stage a Dark Hallow?

[Second Aristh]

Just out of curiosity, exactly how do wizards fight fair?  Given the rules, assuming you aren't the Black Staff, you can't kill with magic, you can't enthrall with magic.  So  what do you do? If it's down to fisticuffs Harry tags everybody shorter and lighter than he is. If it comes down to ordinance, watch Carlos, he carries grenades. Harry put down Corpse Taker with a 44 to the back of the head.  Kincaid killed Harry with a sniper rifle.  And the Red Court used sarin gas to kill thousands including wizards.

In the face off with the Black Court nobody won.  Everybody called it a day and blew the vicinity. Winning involves getting whatever prize you were playing for. It looks like nobody got everything they wanted.

Was Drakul trying to stage a Dark Hallow?

A fair fight wouldn't necessarily be to the death, but this is all theoretical anyway.

The explanation in BG was that Drakul was kind of out on a whim to gather information.  He could either build up an army of zombies, or the Accords forces could come to stop him, and he'd get an idea of their capabilities and possibly some new blampire recruits (which he managed to do).  He didn't much care himself whether or not Ethniu and the Fomor actually succeeded in Chicago.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

What about the Bottom Members? Those who just barely qualify? Luccio is amongst those at the moment.

[Second Aristh]

What about the Bottom Members? Those who just barely qualify? Luccio is amongst those at the moment.

Nah, Luccio got dropped down a few pegs, but I don't think she's near the bottom.  They don't conjure fiery lasers at a moment's notice.  Closer to average wizard, I'd say.  Unfortunately, average wizard can't keep up in most of the fights that Harry gets in nowadays.  Before DB, she was in the running for Senior Council level wizard.