DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?

[Phygers]

 Then there is the issue of true love, unless the protection ends with Murphy's death, Lara cannot touch Harry.

Depends on which Jim feels adds more drama and twists the blade for readers and Harry , but given that Susan's protection stuck around for a while after they split I would lean more to it being one the things between Lara and Harry that is going to cause turmoil. Personally hope it sticks around for while just to drive the LaraxHarry shippers mad 

[vincentric]

Depends on which Jim feels adds more drama and twists the blade for readers and Harry , but given that Susan's protection stuck around for a while after they split I would lean more to it being one the things between Lara and Harry that is going to cause turmoil. Personally hope it sticks around for while just to drive the LaraxHarry shippers mad 

While I do hope that Harry and Lara get together, the true love thing will actually become more a problem if the ship sails If it's a one time hookup for consummation of the marriage, it's just an easily(not the same as willingly or willfully) cancelled inconvenience. If they fall for each other they end up with the Thomas/Justine problem and I can't see Harry being as accepting of their "solution".

[The_Sibelis]

For the exact WoJ...
For that, I think the "who created" vs "how they were created" are two different questions that leaves a bit of wiggle room for later, especially tying in the "too much".  Having an analogue for the White Court as Drakul for the Black Court is different than not knowing at all where the White Court came from.

ahh, yes well ahem. I must apologize for my outburst. Because that's not really condemning the Etruscan theory or any other outright as was implied.. just another shifty way not to give an answer. Usual stuff.

[Second Aristh]

ahh, yes well ahem. I must apologize for my outburst. Because that's not really condemning the Etruscan theory or any other outright as was implied.. just another shifty way not to give an answer. Usual stuff.

Yeah, it's mostly a dodge on the question and admitting it isn't all completely mapped out yet.  I doubt the White Court's official language being Etruscan is irrelevant to their origins.


I think the confirmation that our Chandler got sent to the Mirror Mirror reality was interesting (though there could be a few other ways of interpreting the answer to that question).  Likely Chandler will be an important side character there.  My guess is that Chandler will be how Harry figures out what's going on after he's summoned and escapes.  As a time magic specialist, he could peer back in time for the MM-verse.  This way, he could see how one of Harry's GP choices went the other direction to change everything.  After that, they'll both go back to Chicago-prime, and Chandler will return to the WC to start rebuilding Harry's reputation there and be a covert information source if Harry needed it.  I think at this point, he's the only one that could convince Ramirez to give Harry another chance (after several books, anyway).

[Mira]

While I do hope that Harry and Lara get together, the true love thing will actually become more a problem if the ship sails If it's a one time hookup for consummation of the marriage, it's just an easily(not the same as willingly or willfully) cancelled inconvenience. If they fall for each other they end up with the Thomas/Justine problem and I can't see Harry being as accepting of their "solution".

I sincerely hope not!  Hadn't thought of it in Thomas/Justine terms, but that just smacks too much of Jim repeating himself,  vamp/mortal love match.. Oh and I guess we'd have to include Margaret/Lord Raith in that as well even though I doubt that that was exactly a love match..  Now more than ever I hope the marriage doesn't come off. 

[Phygers]

I sincerely hope not!  Hadn't thought of it in Thomas/Justine terms, but that just smacks too much of Jim repeating himself,  vamp/mortal love match.. Oh and I guess we'd have to include Margaret/Lord Raith in that as well even though I doubt that that was exactly a love match..  Now more than ever I hope the marriage doesn't come off.

Agreed also Im tired of the "vampire with a soul and redemption arch" that has become a major thing since Buffy. Lara is a monster and she knows it long with Harry when she told him that the humans will thank her for becoming livestock

[Griffyn612]

I think the confirmation that our Chandler got sent to the Mirror Mirror reality was interesting (though there could be a few other ways of interpreting the answer to that question). 

Well we knew his specialty was time magic, so him being the talking head in MM to explain things makes sense.

What baffles me is just how easily Drakul opened a Way to an alternate timeline. Like, he just flicked a wrist. I didn't expect him to have THAT kind of power. Opening a Way between two specific places in one reality took a retired god.

And Drakul was like, bye.

Unless he just tossed Chandler into the great big empty, and Chandler's own time magic resulted in his own Way taking him elsewhen.

[Mira]

Well we knew his specialty was time magic, so him being the talking head in MM to explain things makes sense.

What baffles me is just how easily Drakul opened a Way to an alternate timeline. Like, he just flicked a wrist. I didn't expect him to have THAT kind of power. Opening a Way between two specific places in one reality took a retired god.

And Drakul was like, bye.

Unless he just tossed Chandler into the great big empty, and Chandler's own time magic resulted in his own Way taking him elsewhen.

I guess it is possible Chandler created an illusion and it only appeared like Drakul sent him on his way, but not really.  Chandler chickened out and fled the battle..  On the other hand I don't remember it being said that Chandler's specialty was time magic, at least in the books, but there is
a lot of details to forget over the years.  Only question I have about that if time travel is forbidden, why is he allowed to study time magic?  However if it is true it answers Chandler's warning wink and nod to Harry in Peace Talks, he already knew how it was going to turn out.

[EBRIEN]

Well we knew his specialty was time magic, so him being the talking head in MM to explain things makes sense.

Can we get a reference for this? It's spoken of frequently, but I don't remember where we learn this. Or is it just a WoJ?

Thanks---B

Oh. And I still think Chandler's a bad guy.

[Second Aristh]

Can we get a reference for this? It's spoken of frequently, but I don't remember where we learn this. Or is it just a WoJ?

Thanks---B

Oh. And I still think Chandler's a bad guy.

I believe it's a WoJ after Serack compiled the big list of old WoJ's.  Chandler is a time specialist that has to be very careful about skirting the Laws in how he practices.  Part of him being allowed to do things like guard doors alone is how much he is trusted by the WC.

Well we knew his specialty was time magic, so him being the talking head in MM to explain things makes sense.

What baffles me is just how easily Drakul opened a Way to an alternate timeline. Like, he just flicked a wrist. I didn't expect him to have THAT kind of power. Opening a Way between two specific places in one reality took a retired god.

And Drakul was like, bye.

Unless he just tossed Chandler into the great big empty, and Chandler's own time magic resulted in his own Way taking him elsewhen.

Meh, I mean Drakul is Mab level.  Opening the portal to the void between realities seems fine to me power-wise, then Chandler using his own magic to get to somewhere somewhat familiar.

[Mira]

Meh, I mean Drakul is Mab level.  Opening the portal to the void between realities seems fine to me power-wise, then Chandler using his own magic to get to somewhere somewhat familiar.

I can see this, I also think Chandler has been doing some time travel on the side.

[The_Sibelis]

I can see this, I also think Chandler has been doing some time travel on the side.

or he will soon, already has/had? Getting the tense right with TT is impossible lol

[morriswalters]

If you can travel to your future, it's predestination and you have no free will.

Travel to the past and it's in past tense since you have, by definition, already done it.

In the multiverse where there is free will, the timeline branches as each choice is made.  If you go back and change something then your create a new future, a branch, but you have to remain in the branch you started from because there is another you in that new branch.

These aren't my rules for time travel, they are Jim's, fed to you by Bob and Vadderung. However Bob abuses the truth when he speaks, so be careful.

As usual YMMV.

[Mira]

If you can travel to your future, it's predestination and you have no free will.

Travel to the past and it's in past tense since you have, by definition, already done it.

In the multiverse where there is free will, the timeline branches as each choice is made.  If you go back and change something then your create a new future, a branch, but you have to remain in the branch you started from because there is another you in that new branch.

These aren't my rules for time travel, they are Jim's, fed to you by Bob and Vadderung. However Bob abuses the truth when he speaks, so be careful.

As usual YMMV.

However while it seems clear cut, it isn't.  Remember in Cold Days and Harry had to figure out just when the attack on Demonreach was going to happen, except it might have already happened? Merlin made the prison in five different dimensions at the same time. 

So a couple of things with Chandler;  He's figured that bit out as well, so he warnings to Harry in Peace Talks were Harry's future but Chandler's past, nothing violated..

Or;  Back the Cold Days, the Outsiders have no problem with time travel, that is why their attack on Demonreach was so dangerous, from what time or dimension were they going to do it.. Oh man, Chandler is infected with Nemesis, can travel through time and is a trap for Harry.

[Griffyn612]

I imagine Chandler's power to be a lot like Alex Verus.