DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?

[TheCuriousFan]

The Reddit write up didn't include my question that Jim answered. "Must the fae queen mantles go to mortals and does it change their DNA?"

Jim answered, Yes, and yes. Since mortals are the only ones who have free will, the queens must start out with free will. Which is odd, because we've already seen examples of how Molly doesn't have free will in all things, already.

Later, one of the other questions was about Harry's free will. Jim said that his free will is dependent upon how many commands Mab saddles him with.

I have an audio file of the Q&A. I intend to write a transcript, but I haven't had time. Perhaps I'll load it up to YouTube.

Load it up pleese.

[groinkick]

The Reddit write up didn't include my question that Jim answered. "Must the fae queen mantles go to mortals and does it change their DNA?"

Jim answered, Yes, and yes. Since mortals are the only ones who have free will, the queens must start out with free will. Which is odd, because we've already seen examples of how Molly doesn't have free will in all things, already.

They need free will to take up the Mantle, not after.  I'm guessing if Molly had no intention of taking it up, it wouldn't have gone to her.

[LostInTime]

Load it up pleese.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g6EbjOFxKY

[TheCuriousFan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g6EbjOFxKY

Time for me to get typing.

[Mira]

They need free will to take up the Mantle, not after.  I'm guessing if Molly had no intention of taking it up, it wouldn't have gone to her.

I think it is a little more complicated than that, in spite of what Mab told Harry.  Molly was being prepared no doubt, but unless she was outright told this or had enough knowledge of the Fae to know what was going on, it didn't enter her with her permission.  Once there I think it works like a massive shot of the most addictive drug you can think of.  Lilly may have been a changeling, but at
the time the mantle entered her, she was mortal enough to have free will to reject it.  The only one in the books at any rate that took up his mantle of him own free will, was Harry.. And even he didn't fully know what he bargained for once he took it up.

[magnuskn]

Kinda amazed that nobody asked a single question about Murphy.

[Mira]

Kinda amazed that nobody asked a single question about Murphy.

Let her rest in peace,  I don't think we will see her again unless Harry is killed off in the BAT, then Gard will pick him up to join Murphy in Valhalla.

[morriswalters]

They need free will to take up the Mantle, not after.  I'm guessing if Molly had no intention of taking it up, it wouldn't have gone to her.

As a matter of language that isn't what he appeared to say.  He said to take up the mantle they need to be mortal. Mortals by his definition have free will. Lea created a condition where the mantle would go to Molly if no other prepared candidates were available.

[Mira]

As a matter of language that isn't what he appeared to say.  He said to take up the mantle they need to be mortal. Mortals by his definition have free will. Lea created a condition where the mantle would go to Molly if no other prepared candidates were available.

Perhaps, but at some point Molly had to have known this was the case and accepted the conditions of her own free will.  If she didn't and the mantle merely popped into her because she was the nearest vessel, then it wasn't of her free will.  Molly knowing when she accepted her "Auntie's" training that she was also accepting possible conditions for accepting a mantle is critical and never as far as I can tell been fully explained.  One way it was of her own free will, the other is that it wasn't, and that she was tricked into it by Lea and Mab.  Actually the latter is very possible, given how dangerous bargaining with the Fae can be..  The Fae cannot lie, but their view of truth isn't the same as for mere humans who end up with the short end of the stick usually in any Fae bargain.  In other words they got what they bargained for down to the last letter, only to find out it wasn't what they really were bargaining for in the first place.

[RobReece]

There's an audio file on YouTube

[The_Sibelis]

Perhaps, but at some point Molly had to have known this was the case and accepted the conditions of her own free will.  If she didn't and the mantle merely popped into her because she was the nearest vessel, then it wasn't of her free will.  Molly knowing when she accepted her "Auntie's" training that she was also accepting possible conditions for accepting a mantle is critical and never as far as I can tell been fully explained.  One way it was of her own free will, the other is that it wasn't, and that she was tricked into it by Lea and Mab.  Actually the latter is very possible, given how dangerous bargaining with the Fae can be..  The Fae cannot lie, but their view of truth isn't the same as for mere humans who end up with the short end of the stick usually in any Fae bargain.  In other words they got what they bargained for down to the last letter, only to find out it wasn't what they really were bargaining for in the first place.

I tend to think the third option would be a subconscious choice actually, I remember someone pointing out it was Harry's ID wearing the winter badge for instance. An ID harry was being influenced by lash too.
I think it's a matrix dupe. She accepted on some level without knowing exactly what she was saying yes to.

[Mira]

I tend to think the third option would be a subconscious choice actually, I remember someone pointing out it was Harry's ID wearing the winter badge for instance. An ID harry was being influenced by lash too.
I think it's a matrix dupe. She accepted on some level without knowing exactly what she was saying yes to.

That is the trick.  Yes, on many levels she freely made the choices that got her where she ended up.
Yet, in truth since she had no understanding of what her choices would mean, how free were they? 

[morriswalters]

Perhaps, but at some point Molly had to have known this was the case and accepted the conditions of her own free will.  If she didn't and the mantle merely popped into her because she was the nearest vessel, then it wasn't of her free will.  Molly knowing when she accepted her "Auntie's" training that she was also accepting possible conditions for accepting a mantle is critical and never as far as I can tell been fully explained.  One way it was of her own free will, the other is that it wasn't, and that she was tricked into it by Lea and Mab.  Actually the latter is very possible, given how dangerous bargaining with the Fae can be..  The Fae cannot lie, but their view of truth isn't the same as for mere humans who end up with the short end of the stick usually in any Fae bargain.  In other words they got what they bargained for down to the last letter, only to find out it wasn't what they really were bargaining for in the first place.

Molly bargained with no one other than Harry.  Harry killed himself and once that happened Molly was left on her own. It's the whole point of Ghost Story. Harry placed her in the position she found herself in.  And there was no one who could help her.  Mab calls him out for this in Cold Days. Harry never meant for any of those things to happen but that doesn't change what did happen.  As he tells Maeve right before she dies, free will isn't a super power. That dialog is the best definition of free will that Jim's given to date.

[Mira]

Molly bargained with no one other than Harry.  Harry killed himself and once that happened Molly was left on her own. It's the whole point of Ghost Story. Harry placed her in the position she found herself in.  And there was no one who could help her.  Mab calls him out for this in Cold Days. Harry never meant for any of those things to happen but that doesn't change what did happen.  As he tells Maeve right before she dies, free will isn't a super power. That dialog is the best definition of free will that Jim's given to date.

Molly still had choices though, it was her choice to assist Harry's suicide.  On one level you could almost say Mab was taking a bit of revenge by training Molly without telling her the reasons because Molly's assistance deprived her of her Knight.

[morriswalters]

We might never know, but if you remember Mab said she has something else in mind for Molly.  The part of me that likes happy endings thinks that she meant Molly to be Harry's wife.