DR in perspective? theory

[The_Sibelis]

So thinking about DR and how Merlin basically either went back to a single point from five possible timelines to create DR from a single point, or created it across five timelines at a single point in time(same difference?). The main significance to me has always been in relation to the pentacles five points and it being some sort of spell form. An I wonder if it's not even simpler in it's design then it appears. What if it's designed to trap spacetime, or the void between it on a thaumaturgical scale? So all of outside is snared at once in stasis? Idk, I actually had the idea rereading the devil's trap scene in the aquarium and thinking about it's similarities to DRs defenses. What if the reason outsiders come in imitating some form of reality is because they have to do a metaphor for what Harry's friends did on DR and disguise themselves as part of the Island/reality?

[Second Aristh]

Jim has mentioned before that he drew inspiration of pentagrams in multiple dimensions from one of these.  At least, something along those lines.  The D&D nerd is coming out in him.

[morriswalters]

The figure is called a regular dodecagon.  Draw a line from the center perpendicular to each face and you end up with 12 lines. Each face represents a pentagon with five sides of the same length.  However Jim may have a counting problem.  The figure has 12 radii and Jim says the prison has 13 aisles.

If you are interested in this kind of thing, what Merlin did can be represented by a helical spiral(a slinky).  Walk down the spiral an each time you do one full revolution you are at the same place when looked at from above, but are one coil down.  And if you stop after 12 revolutions and if your starting point was n(1) then you are at n(12)+1.  Twelve revolutions plus 1 for n=1 to 12.  Thirteen.

If you draw a pentagon on this structure the five vertexes will end up at different points vertically. So here's time travel. Travel down the spiral and each time you come to some n you have traveled back an n interval of time.  If want to make things hard for the traveler make a rule that says you can only go in one direction on the spiral.

[Second Aristh]

The figure is called a regular dodecagon.  Draw a line from the center perpendicular to each face and you end up with 12 lines. Each face represents a pentagon with five sides of the same length.  However Jim may have a counting problem.  The figure has 12 radii and Jim says the prison has 13 aisles.

If you are interested in this kind of thing, what Merlin did can be represented by a helical spiral(a slinky).  Walk down the spiral an each time you do one full revolution you are at the same place when looked at from above, but are one coil down.  And if you stop after 12 revolutions and if your starting point was n(1) then you are at n(12)+1.  Twelve revolutions plus 1 for n=1 to 12.  Thirteen.

If you draw a pentagon on this structure the five vertexes will end up at different points vertically. So here's time travel. Travel down the spiral and each time you come to some n you have traveled back an n interval of time.  If want to make things hard for the traveler make a rule that says you can only go in one direction on the spiral.

Dodecahedron; dodecagons are flat with twelve sides. 

The prison was created in five times simultaneously, not twelve times.  Also, there's a bit of a discrepancy with 12 vs 13 aisles.  In CD, Harry says there are eleven others besides the one that Alfred had just opened.  Then in SG, Harry is parkouring in aisle 7 of 13.  My guess is that he's counting the stairs to get out of the prison as number 13.  It fits more nicely with the geometry that way.

[Griffyn612]

If you are interested in this kind of thing, what Merlin did can be represented by a helical spiral(a slinky).

The prison was created in five times simultaneously, not twelve times.

Ages ago I made an MS Paint drawing for this, but that was back when Photobucket was free and helpful.

The design was like a slinky, but instead of being five points directly above each other, they were spaced so that from above (or below) the slinky, the points were equidistant and formed a pentacle when connected.

Also the prison does have other ties to the number twelve.  There were 1,728 steps, or twelve sections of twelve stairways of twelve steps.

[groinkick]

The prison was created in five times simultaneously, not twelve times.

Ages ago I made an MS Paint drawing for this, but that was back when Photobucket was free and helpful.

The design was like a slinky, but instead of being five points directly above each other, they were spaced so that from above (or below) the slinky, the points were equidistant and formed a pentacle when connected.

Also the prison does have other ties to the number twelve.  There were 1,728 steps, or twelve sections of twelve stairways of twelve steps.

Might find this interesting.  Found in on the web

The number 12 signifies perfection of government or rule. According to Bible scholars, 12 is the product of 3, which signifies the divine, and 4, which signifies the earthly. The heavenly bodies are also connected to the number 12 since the stars pass through the 12 signs of the zodiac in their heavenly procession. The number 12 has further significance, as it represents authority, appointment and completeness. The number 666 is used to represent the devil and hell, whereas 12, 12, 12 is believed to signify God and heaven. The number 12 is also associated with the government of the cosmos.

Perhaps the 12 sets of sections of 12 stairways and 12 steps in a clue about an Angel being involved with Demon Reach?

[morriswalters]

A slinky is a circle when looked at along its axis or rotation and thus any figure that can be inscribed within will work.  I wish this was an original idea but helical spirals fit the idea of time travel very well and I've seen it in the past somewhere. Maybe here.

Dodecahedron; dodecagons are flat with twelve sides. 

The prison was created in five times simultaneously, not twelve times.  Also, there's a bit of a discrepancy with 12 vs 13 aisles.  In CD, Harry says there are eleven others besides the one that Alfred had just opened.  Then in SG, Harry is parkouring in aisle 7 of 13.  My guess is that he's counting the stairs to get out of the prison as number 13.  It fits more nicely with the geometry that way.

I referred to the flat version. As I have stated to Mira, I don't guess when there is text and I suppose I am obsessive compulsive to that point.  The text says 13.

[Mira]

Might find this interesting.  Found in on the web

The number 12 signifies perfection of government or rule. According to Bible scholars, 12 is the product of 3, which signifies the divine, and 4, which signifies the earthly. The heavenly bodies are also connected to the number 12 since the stars pass through the 12 signs of the zodiac in their heavenly procession. The number 12 has further significance, as it represents authority, appointment and completeness. The number 666 is used to represent the devil and hell, whereas 12, 12, 12 is believed to signify God and heaven. The number 12 is also associated with the government of the cosmos.

Perhaps the 12 sets of sections of 12 stairways and 12 steps in a clue about an Angel being involved with Demon Reach?

As opposed to Mac's Place where everything adds up to 13, and if we are all correct, Mac is an ex-angel if not an angel.

[The_Sibelis]

As opposed to Mac's Place where everything adds up to 13, and if we are all correct, Mac is an ex-angel if not an angel.

I've had an odd theory or two on that 13th missing hall. Perhaps it represents a being that's elsewhere but not necessarily separate? 13 has alot of connotations towards death and entropy, and looking at possibilities I like the blackstaff, as it would tie into my DR/=MW theory, and that's the missing piece of her that's not tied down. An of course, nemesis. Not my favorite, but it's there.
*It parallels the grey council, twelve stood united and Harry's the loose cannon, even now. He's never formally met them or been to a meeting, but he's a part of it too.

[groinkick]

As opposed to Mac's Place where everything adds up to 13, and if we are all correct, Mac is an ex-angel if not an angel.

Maybe but according to Harry those things in Mac's place adding to 13 are a way of disrupting magic.

[Mira]

Maybe but according to Harry those things in Mac's place adding to 13 are a way of disrupting magic.

I don't remember him saying that one way or the other, I was pointing out that in contrast at Mac's place everything adds up to the number 13..

[Griffyn612]

   There are thirteen stools at the bar and thirteen
tables in the room. Thirteen windows, set up high
in the wall in order to be above ground level, let
some light from the street into the place. Thirteen
mirrors on the walls cast back reflections of the
patrons in dim detail, and give the illusion of more
space. Thirteen wooden columns, carved with
likenesses from folktales and legends of the Old
World, make it difficult to walk around the place
without weaving a circuitous route—they also quite
intentionally break up the flow of random energies,
dispelling to one degree or another the auras that
gather around broody, grumpy wizards and
keeping them from manifesting in unintentional
and colorful ways.

   I looked around the room for a moment, with its
annoying combination of low ceilings and lazily
spinning fans, its thirteen carved wooden columns
and its thirteen windows, plus thirteen tables
arranged haphazardly to defray and scatter the
residual magical effects that sometimes
surrounded hungry (in other words, angry)
wizards.

   The bar has thirteen stools at it. There were
thirteen columns of dark wood, each one hand-
carved with swirling leaves and images of beings
of tale and fantasy. Thirteen tables had been
spaced out around the room in an irregular pattern,
and like the columns and bar stools, they had been
intentionally placed that way in order to deflect
and scatter random magical energies.

[Mira]

Thanks, but if that is so, would Merlin have wanted the same protections on Demonreach?

[Griffyn612]

Thanks, but if that is so, would Merlin have wanted the same protections on Demonreach?

I could see him wanting to disrupt the power of the prisoners if possible. But I don't think it'd be necessary.

I also think the thirteenth tunnel thing was a typo.

[Second Aristh]

A slinky is a circle when looked at along its axis or rotation and thus any figure that can be inscribed within will work.  I wish this was an original idea but helical spirals fit the idea of time travel very well and I've seen it in the past somewhere. Maybe here.

I referred to the flat version. As I have stated to Mira, I don't guess when there is text and I suppose I am obsessive compulsive to that point.  The text says 13.

Check out covering spaces in topology if you want to see more about the idea of a helix projecting onto a circle mathematically.  That kind of thing inspired Ms Duck's pancake theory of reality years ago.

The text says 12 before it says 13.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  Either way, I doubt it'll be relevant story-wise.

As opposed to Mac's Place where everything adds up to 13, and if we are all correct, Mac is an ex-angel if not an angel.

That's a good point.  No reason that the 13 can't be significant for multiple reasons.  Non-angelic + magically dispersive.