Demonreach, Ley lines, and Harry's connection

[Second Aristh]

The impression I got from Cold Days was that Merlin built the island long before Chicago was even thought of..  Would have to go back and reread that bit, but I seem to remember that when Merlin built it, it was done in multidimensional times including before the ice ages..

Five different times, but I don't believe we have any information on particular time periods.

[The_Sibelis]

Five different times, but I don't believe we have any information on particular time periods.

five times at the same time. He interconnected through multiverse.. he literally built it in different realities and tied them together from the description.

[Mira]

five times at the same time. He interconnected through multiverse.. he literally built it in different realities and tied them together from the description.

Yup, and that is part of the reason why it doesn't show up on maps.  I do remember a reference to the ice ages and the island, but am not sure if it is in the books or it is a WOJ.  The connection has to do with why Alfred has a limp if I remember correctly.

[Second Aristh]

Yup, and that is part of the reason why it doesn't show up on maps.  I do remember a reference to the ice ages and the island, but am not sure if it is in the books or it is a WOJ.  The connection has to do with why Alfred has a limp if I remember correctly.

The ice age glacier gave Alfred his limp, not the Gatekeeper.  You might be thinking of that WoJ.  The genus loci likely existed before the prison was constructed, so it's not clear that OG Merlin went that far back in time.

[Mira]

The ice age glacier gave Alfred his limp, not the Gatekeeper.  You might be thinking of that WoJ.  The genus loci likely existed before the prison was constructed, so it's not clear that OG Merlin went that far back in time.

Could be, so if that is true then the island existed before Merlin decided to turn it into a prison for evil monsters and gods.

[Second Aristh]

Could be, so if that is true then the island existed before Merlin decided to turn it into a prison for evil monsters and gods.

Yep.  Hard to build a prison when there’s nowhere to stand. 

[Mira]

Yep.  Hard to build a prison when there’s nowhere to stand. 

What is interesting though is Alfred.  He says in Skin Game page 5 after  Harry had just called him Alfred for the first time.

The enormous spirit considered that."I AM THE ISLAND."
"Well, yes,"I said, gathering myself to my feet. "It's spirit. Its genius loci"
" AND I AM ALSO SEPARATE FROM THE ISLAND.  A VESSEL."

So what is Alfred trying to say?  Either he doesn't understand what a genius loci is, or he is
something else.  When he says he is a vessel, does he mean as I suspect that perhaps he is the well from which all that dark power emanates as a ley line?

[EBRIEN]

Ooooh. I like that one, Mira. If not a vessel for the leyline energy, then what?

[Second Aristh]

What is interesting though is Alfred.  He says in Skin Game page 5 after  Harry had just called him Alfred for the first time.

So what is Alfred trying to say?  Either he doesn't understand what a genius loci is, or he is
something else.  When he says he is a vessel, does he mean as I suspect that perhaps he is the well from which all that dark power emanates as a ley line?

Probably most genus loci are not all that self aware.  They don't think in language as we know it.  Before Harry mentions it, it doesn't occur to the genus loci that there is a distinction between itself and the prison.

Harry is doing for Alfred what he did for Bob and personifying him (likely giving out a sliver of free will in the process; Uriel was right about mortals throwing Names around).

[Mira]

Probably most genus loci are not all that self aware.  They don't think in language as we know it.  Before Harry mentions it, it doesn't occur to the genus loci that there is a distinction between itself and the prison.

Harry is doing for Alfred what he did for Bob and personifying him (likely giving out a sliver of free will in the process; Uriel was right about mortals throwing Names around).

 Alfred is more than a mere Genius Loci,  he is an Intellectus..

Turn Coat page 278 Harry tells Morgan about his contact with Alfred and here is Morgan's response.

"Merciful God,"he said.  "Intellectus."
I felt my eyebrows go up.  "You're kidding."
Molly muttered a couple of candles to light so that we could see each other clearlyl
"Intell-whatsis?" she asked me.

"Intellectus," I said.  "Um.  It's a mode of existence for a very few rare and powerful
supernatural beings--angels have it.  I'm willing to bet old Mother Winter and Mother Summer have it. For beings with intellectus, all reality exists in one piece, one place, one moment, and they can look at the whole thing.  They don't seek or aquire knowledge.  They just know things.  They see the entire picture."

There is a hell of a lot more to it as Morgan goes on to explain to Molly, but it's getting late and I don't feel like copying another page and a half.

[Second Aristh]

Alfred is more than a mere Genius Loci,  he is an Intellectus..

Turn Coat page 278 Harry tells Morgan about his contact with Alfred and here is Morgan's response.

There is a hell of a lot more to it as Morgan goes on to explain to Molly, but it's getting late and I don't feel like copying another page and a half.

Alfred has intellectus about the island, yes.  The prison being built allowed him to ascend to a higher place than your typical genius loci.

[Ed0517]

Perhaps, but not advisable because of the danger of the power itself.  Remember in Peace Talks when Harry asked Alfred about his range for collecting Ethniu, he said it was the edge of the lake.  Now possibly if he drew on the ley line power, it would have been much easier, fewer would have died etc., but that didn't happen.  It wasn't even explored by Harry or suggested by Alfred, even though it was vital that Ethniu be locked up and as quickly as possible.  So  that says it either the power cannot be drawn upon by the Warden from anywhere or the consequences of doing that are too heavy.

Harry tapping the power might not have had much effect. Perhaps Alfred can and does use the power, and that was the limiting factor - he barely reaches the shore, at least at that power.  You may lose strength further from your power sources, Lea tells Mouse he is far from his source of power, but Mouse "Lives with a wizard. I cheat" 

[Ed0517]

You haven't crossed the biggest hurdle for Merlin to put them in there.  What was someone from medieval England doing building demon prisons in Chicago to put Gods and Monsters in?  Even the Norse didn't get that far inland.  And it was a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court not Harry.

Ericsson did not know about Ways. Merlin likely did. And once wizards knew of Ways.. only reasonable some of them would have explored the Ways. Human nature. Merlin wanted somewhere remote. He may have looked for a Genius Loci - I like Arith's idea the prison lifted him above most Loci and gave him intellectus. Maybe like Harry seems to lift Toot. Anyway, there is a Way to the island - when Harry invited the Senior Council, people were gating in on the far side. Plus the Gatekeeper knew one.  If Merlin decided he needed a jail, and could time travel, why not go back and build it in the past, so it can be ready in his own day? If he needed one in 1200, why not go back to 500 and build it, so it is waiting. So a relatively sparsely populated area. An island in the middle of one of the largest lakes in the world. A genius Loci to develop into a jailer.   Just fits.

[morriswalters]

If Merlin Harry decided he needed a jail, and could time travel, why not go back and build it in the past, so it can be ready in his own day? If he needed one in 1200 2020, why not go back to 500Whenever and build it, so it is waiting. So a relatively sparsely populated area. An island in the middle of one of the largest lakes in the world. A genius Loci to develop into a jailer.   Just fits.

This is the curse of time travel for authors and why they use it. If you want an effect it is easy to create a cause. I've taken the liberty of editing your prose.

[Mira]

This is the curse of time travel for authors and why they use it. If you want an effect it is easy to create a cause. I've taken the liberty of editing your prose.

And why so many time travel stories fall flat, they are predictable.