More foreshadowing?

[Mira]

that's a different theory altogether, and also one of mine, yea.

Well, my vote goes to history repeating itself, simply because the "time travel" theory is just
over done in my opinion..  Too much of a cop out, too easy, the repetition of history makes for
a more interesting story I think, because you know what is going to happen based on what has
gone on before, and how do you prevent it or make sure it does.

[Second Aristh]

Well, my vote goes to history repeating itself, simply because the "time travel" theory is just
over done in my opinion..  Too much of a cop out, too easy, the repetition of history makes for
a more interesting story I think, because you know what is going to happen based on what has
gone on before, and how do you prevent it or make sure it does.

Nah, the time travel book is the last one before the BAT.  The Dresden Files is a detective story behind all the fantasy elements.  The Black Council's actions are the mystery of the whole series.  So, at the end, you have to do a big reveal of what happened for the readers to catch up on / relish that their theories were right.  Since this is a big series with lots of players, that's going to take a lot of pages.  You need basically a whole book for it.  Further, it's a story with first person perspective, so you have to put Harry's eyes on the key events.  Time travel with Harry in the background trying to not be seen and/or chasing another villain is the clever way Jim will do that, imo.  After that makes a significant change, you can proceed full steam ahead to the big apocalyptic trilogy to cap off the series.

My guess, Jim has put in a number of time travel clues (e.g. Chichen Itza's hanging fuego) where you can dismiss them as something else, but are actually evidence of Future!Harry's involvement.

[morriswalters]

Yes and no, I know Mab put the responsibility of what happened to Molly squarely on Harry because he allowed her hero worship.  However Harry had no clue either that Molly had talent until the damage was already done.  Also the idea that Molly never was free is nonsense.  Yes, she was young and the young often make foolish choices, but she still had free will to make choices.  She could have gone to Harry when she discovered she had talent, she chose not to.  That had consequences, and not just for her.

Jim begs to differ.  He wrote Proven Guilty and then Ghost Story. Your making Merlin's argument in Proven Guilty.  And Uriel explicitly explains it at the end of Ghost Story and in Skin Game.
 
And like time travel or the multiverse or not, Jim has telegraphed how it will work and that he's going to do it.

[Arjan]

Jim begs to differ.  He wrote Proven Guilty and then Ghost Story. Your making Merlin's argument in Proven Guilty.  And Uriel explicitly explains it at the end of Ghost Story and in Skin Game.
 
And like time travel or the multiverse or not, Jim has telegraphed how it will work and that he's going to do it.

The merlin is not that interested in free will. It is more like "She is dangerous: kill her"

[The_Sibelis]

Jim begs to differ.  He wrote Proven Guilty and then Ghost Story. Your making Merlin's argument in Proven Guilty.  And Uriel explicitly explains it at the end of Ghost Story and in Skin Game.
 
And like time travel or the multiverse or not, Jim has telegraphed how it will work and that he's going to do it.

indeed, it would seem to me he fit in both models, using the idea of conservation of history to double into why history repeats itself.
The mechanism for the actually resetting of time(but not history if that makes sense..) is open to debate,(though stars and stones may have some impact on it, a 2k year timeline has also been hinted at in places, like Woj asking whose in the 'know' like Nic and the answer being beings that have been around for a couple millennia) I prescribe to the gyre theory myself, where in time repeatedly inverts upon itself.  So certain events and figures that have cut a deeper groove in time, things with more energy behind them, tend to repeat themselves on the timeline. Which is where we get variations of individuals who resemble each other in deed or stature, events that keep happening, ect.(Woj of Rashid being that last version of Harry and not enjoying it very much)
On the other hand, those beings have free will,(at least now that they're born human mostly?) And the actual manifestation of the timeline itself can vary immensely. Following the Merlinian backdrop I think Harry-Merlin, Marcone-Arthur/Uther, Ms Beckett-Morgana, Hendrix-Lancelot, Murphy was Guinevere, ect.
Course, since time is inverting with each repetition the actual results of each are different.. Murphy's domain was legal not magical, but she ran the other side of Marcones empire, Hendricks died loyal, Marcones a diseased moose Wang, ect. though, I've noticed that the major players on the inside have done things to fill in gaps where things didn't go where they would, either by design or accident. Vadderung took on the position of magical protection for Marcone, and sent Gard to fill the guin archetype, insuring he had a real chance to rise to power in the supernatural world. Gard, who I think was a previous version of Murphy as much as Rashid was Harry, ended up with Hendricks giving light to the Lancelot-Guin love affair, but it didn't cause any problems in this incarnation that I know of.. heck, Denton and co would make a good Questing Beast now that I consider it lol. Iirc he thinned out the knights early incarnation?

[morriswalters]

All time travel stories are the same.  In the case of the DF there is no reason to go forward. So if Harry must go, he has to go back. The only questions are how far and why.

For anyone who hates the multiverse there was a story that I read somewhere that says branching timelines are ghost timelines. That there is one primary branch and all branches off the primary eventually fade out or merge back, if it makes anyone feel better.

The merlin is not that interested in free will. It is more like "She is dangerous: kill her"

The Merlin believes that Black Magic removes free will.

[Mira]

All time travel stories are the same.  In the case of the DF there is no reason to go forward. So if Harry must go, he has to go back. The only questions are how far and why.

For anyone who hates the multiverse there was a story that I read somewhere that says branching timelines are ghost timelines. That there is one primary branch and all branches off the primary eventually fade out or merge back, if it makes anyone feel better.The Merlin believes that Black Magic removes free will.

The time travel stories and multiverse stories are a good crutch or an easy way to get an author out of a corner he or she has written himself or herself into.  However one can go to that well one too many times.  I don't think you can call flash backs time travel, they are simply memory.

[The_Sibelis]

The time travel stories and multiverse stories are a good crutch or an easy way to get an author out of a corner he or she has written himself or herself into.  However one can go to that well one too many times.  I don't think you can call flash backs time travel, they are simply memory.

you say that, but what story and what author uses it as a crutch to escape what impossible situation they've cornered themselves into? That's not a feature of TT or multiversal stories, that's a Deus ex machina and it's generally just lazy righting. That has nothing to do with them as actual plot devices and such uses wouldn't be prepared for the complexity of multiple timelines. In other words, don't blame plot hooks for crap authors writing crap stories.

[Arjan]

Merlin believes that Black Magic removes free will.

I do not think he denies that Molly can be saved. It is just that he thinks the whole thing is to dangerous and the resources can be better used somewhere else. He thinks it is a waste of time and effort. He was under Peabodies influence at the time but I do not think that shifted his opinions that much. Only a small push.

I never read him saying anything about free will.

[morriswalters]

He would have executed Molly without a single qualm for something he believed she would become. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Mira]

He would have executed Molly without a single qualm for something he believed she would become. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

And would have done, except on that occasion Harry politically out maneuvered him. A sin that
Harry paid for at the end of Battle Ground when he was kicked out of the White Council.

[Arjan]

He would have executed Molly without a single qualm for something he believed she would become. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I read it that he just did not want to take the risk and put in the effort. Also straightforward.