What will Eb do?

[Griffyn612]

If he is a Sumerian character, I think we can't blame the Pyramids on him. The pyramids predate the fall of Sumeria as a civilization. Though, I suppose he could have left Sumeria and just have given them writing, then moving to Egypt to go Pyramid-building.

Ziusudra ruled around 2900 BC. He was the last king before the Flood, not the last king.

Gilgamesh visited an already immortal Ziusudra around 2700 BC.

The great pyramids were created no earlier than 2550 BC.

That means Ziusudra had a few hundred years to grow bored with immortality before he set out to do things, and could have been in Cairo in time for the pyramids. I'm not saying he would have been responsible, but I could see an immortal like that being a guiding hand for knowledge and education, and being there for important events.

[Yuillegan]

His protection wouldn't have worked against the satellite directly (Harry's keys, for example, worked as intended), but the problem is targeting.  I don't think a tracking spell would have had anything to grasp on Papa Raith, and it's not worth the risk to try without knowing it's going to hit.  Other physical assaults are probably going to be similarly difficult for whatever reason.

Three hundred plus instead of 150 for Lara, but yeah the timing is a bit off.  She's probably closer to Eb's age than Luccio's.  Probably bias of the "next generation of leadership" getting me of thinking they were more contemporary.  Could be a few earlier sons which he culled or daughters whampire politics got combined with poor whampire fertility for why Lara's the eldest now.

I think you're undervaluing the whampire mojo factor for someone like Grey.  Doesn't matter how hard you can hit if you've been psychically stunned.  Maybe Grey can withstand something like that and still fight, but I don't think it's a foolproof strategy.


After BG, I'm actually thinking that Ramirez is a better candidate for next generation Blackstaff.  The White Council would fight Harry's possession of it, and it would be too close to Mother Winter in his hands.  Everybody likes Carlos, though.  Plus, Harry admitted that he was becoming a better wizard, at least for the subtle stuff.

I agree that targeting would be an issue, but not an insurmountable one. There are other ways of learning a location than locking on to a target with a tracking spell. Even mundane means. It's more the apparent lack of effort or result that bothers me. It seems at odds with the implacable, highly dangerous, hot-head that is Ebenezar.

Yeah, I still wonder about that weird Lara and Eb romance theory. They certainly have a weird history that we don't know about. I wouldn't put anything like that past Jim - consider Nicodemus and his daughter's relationship. If that was fine for the story, just about anything's on the table. Yes, I think it makes sense that many of the previous siblings would have died or been culled. Seems odd though to allow your kin to get slaughtered so much considering they are meant to continue the family line. We know Lord Raith often just kills his sons. But allowing his daughters to die, or killing them off occasionally seems odd. The fact that his "eldest" daughter is merely 300 or so when he himself is roughly 2000 years old...something doesn't add up.

The White Court's psychic attack is powerful, I grant you. But Grey is the scion of a mortal and an immortal. Uriel took notice of him. I can't see Lord Raith laying out such a powerful being with a single move. But true enough, we just don't know. Something to ask Jim sometime. I find it interesting though that White Court vampires don't often use it on powerful beings. None of them tried it on the Naagloshii, or on the Denarians, or the Fomor (the leaders, not the hybrid warriors). Seems like they don't just throw it around at everything. We've never even seen it tried on another vampire. Which makes me wonder if it's really only effective on mortals or other White Court vampires (and maybe some Faeries). In any case, if Grey were concerned about that sort of thing (and he would have fought the White Court before), he would adjust his methods presumably. Considering how easy it was for the Naagloshii to carve them up whole sale, I can't imagine he would have too much trouble. Sure, he isn't as powerful as Shagnasty but still.

You see, I had Ramirez picked for the eventual Merlin. Assuming the White Council survives/is reborn. He follows the rules, is well respected, values chain of command, has proven himself in the field etc. He doesn't have the right mentality to be the Blackstaff. It's about being able to make the right calls and live with the consequences. It's about being able to get your hands dirty so others don't have to. Ramirez is already too conflicted and would probably not deal well with it. I am not even sure he even knows of the position - which would upset him to learn of it, particularly because it would violate quite a few of his principles. The position isn't common knowledge amongst the Council. Besides, Harry getting a power up won't make life easier for him - so it's even more likely he will get it, if anyone does. It would only convince the Council he was even more dangerous or evil. They would hate to lose such a powerful weapon. It might even be the thing that sets them at him. He would look a bit like the Dark Lord from their perspective.

Ziusudra ruled around 2900 BC. He was the last king before the Flood, not the last king.

Gilgamesh visited an already immortal Ziusudra around 2700 BC.

The great pyramids were created no earlier than 2550 BC.

That means Ziusudra had a few hundred years to grow bored with immortality before he set out to do things, and could have been in Cairo in time for the pyramids. I'm not saying he would have been responsible, but I could see an immortal like that being a guiding hand for knowledge and education, and being there for important events.

Certainly an intriguing possibility. I wouldn't mind meeting an "immortal mortal" if you like. No real powers, just lives forever. His real strength is his extensive knowledge.

I wonder about him being around during the time of the pyramids though. He could have been there, but the Gods were fairly active back then. Not to mention the fact Pharaohs were considered living gods for a time. Considering the Pyramids were apparently about Sun worship I would think the Gods would have been more involved with their construction, myself. But maybe it was a joint thing.

I could see him being a part of the House of Life. Perhaps the proto- Librarians in fact. The House of Life were associated with Kingship, and preserving and creating knowledge. Sometimes also associated with physicians and magic. Interestingly, it possibly was absorbed by the Coptic traditions, and considering the enormous links between the Catholic Church and Egypt (the Catholic Church just loved getting Ancient Egyptian artefacts, particularly obelisks), I could see the House of Life becoming the Catholic Church, and then leaving and becoming the Librarians.

Although, considering their style in the Dogmen comic, I don't have high hopes. Far more MIB than Watchers.

[Second Aristh]

I agree that targeting would be an issue, but not an insurmountable one. There are other ways of learning a location than locking on to a target with a tracking spell. Even mundane means. It's more the apparent lack of effort or result that bothers me. It seems at odds with the implacable, highly dangerous, hot-head that is Ebenezar.

Wizards hex up mundane means quite often.  Maybe not insurmountable, but I think it would be difficult enough to end the mission before it began.

Yeah, I still wonder about that weird Lara and Eb romance theory. They certainly have a weird history that we don't know about. I wouldn't put anything like that past Jim - consider Nicodemus and his daughter's relationship. If that was fine for the story, just about anything's on the table. Yes, I think it makes sense that many of the previous siblings would have died or been culled. Seems odd though to allow your kin to get slaughtered so much considering they are meant to continue the family line. We know Lord Raith often just kills his sons. But allowing his daughters to die, or killing them off occasionally seems odd. The fact that his "eldest" daughter is merely 300 or so when he himself is roughly 2000 years old...something doesn't add up.

It is kind of odd, but the bookkeeping for the family tree is probably easier that way. 

How many sisters does Thomas have?
I can’t find that notebook, grr. I think it’s nine. Papa Raith’s bodyguards minus one who is utterly bonkers and kept more or less in the attic, and Inari, the one who got away.

Also, I forget why we're assuming Lara is the oldest.  Is it because she's the boss or is that a book quote that I've forgotten?

The White Court's psychic attack is powerful, I grant you. But Grey is the scion of a mortal and an immortal. Uriel took notice of him. I can't see Lord Raith laying out such a powerful being with a single move. But true enough, we just don't know. Something to ask Jim sometime. I find it interesting though that White Court vampires don't often use it on powerful beings. None of them tried it on the Naagloshii, or on the Denarians, or the Fomor (the leaders, not the hybrid warriors). Seems like they don't just throw it around at everything. We've never even seen it tried on another vampire. Which makes me wonder if it's really only effective on mortals or other White Court vampires (and maybe some Faeries). In any case, if Grey were concerned about that sort of thing (and he would have fought the White Court before), he would adjust his methods presumably. Considering how easy it was for the Naagloshii to carve them up whole sale, I can't imagine he would have too much trouble. Sure, he isn't as powerful as Shagnasty but still.

Point of fact, Lara has thrown whampire mojo at Madeline and her father (also how Papa Raith kept his daughters in line).  It's not just mortals.  It was a bit weird that they didn't do it against the uber-ghouls, true.  Maybe it's more disruptive than helpful in group fights?

The "Who could take down Mab" WoJ seems to imply that the extremely narrow path for the entire White Court to defeat Mab would be via mass mind whammy.

Goodman Grey is probably nowhere near as powerful as Shagnasty.  I don't see the clear tactic that Grey would use against Papa Raith.  A pure physical attack would have to be immediately decisive or be subject to a mind whammy, but whampires are tough to make that happen.  On that scale of beings that could make that happen, the cost to rent their services could be too high.

You see, I had Ramirez picked for the eventual Merlin. Assuming the White Council survives/is reborn. He follows the rules, is well respected, values chain of command, has proven himself in the field etc. He doesn't have the right mentality to be the Blackstaff. It's about being able to make the right calls and live with the consequences. It's about being able to get your hands dirty so others don't have to. Ramirez is already too conflicted and would probably not deal well with it. I am not even sure he even knows of the position - which would upset him to learn of it, particularly because it would violate quite a few of his principles. The position isn't common knowledge amongst the Council. Besides, Harry getting a power up won't make life easier for him - so it's even more likely he will get it, if anyone does. It would only convince the Council he was even more dangerous or evil. They would hate to lose such a powerful weapon. It might even be the thing that sets them at him. He would look a bit like the Dark Lord from their perspective.

Maybe.  I'd put Luccio over Ramirez for Merlin, though.  She's a better political fit, sympathetic for the old guard but flexible enough to work for the younger generations.

I'd also say no one that isn't upset about the existence of the Blackstaff is worthy to wield it.  That being said, I still don't like Harry as the next Blackstaff. 

[Yuillegan]

Wizards hex up mundane means quite often.  Maybe not insurmountable, but I think it would be difficult enough to end the mission before it began.

It is kind of odd, but the bookkeeping for the family tree is probably easier that way. 

Also, I forget why we're assuming Lara is the oldest.  Is it because she's the boss or is that a book quote that I've forgotten?

Point of fact, Lara has thrown whampire mojo at Madeline and her father (also how Papa Raith kept his daughters in line).  It's not just mortals.  It was a bit weird that they didn't do it against the uber-ghouls, true.  Maybe it's more disruptive than helpful in group fights?

The "Who could take down Mab" WoJ seems to imply that the extremely narrow path for the entire White Court to defeat Mab would be via mass mind whammy.

Goodman Grey is probably nowhere near as powerful as Shagnasty.  I don't see the clear tactic that Grey would use against Papa Raith.  A pure physical attack would have to be immediately decisive or be subject to a mind whammy, but whampires are tough to make that happen.  On that scale of beings that could make that happen, the cost to rent their services could be too high.

Maybe.  I'd put Luccio over Ramirez for Merlin, though.  She's a better political fit, sympathetic for the old guard but flexible enough to work for the younger generations.

I'd also say no one that isn't upset about the existence of the Blackstaff is worthy to wield it.  That being said, I still don't like Harry as the next Blackstaff.

Wizard hexes, sure. Not Vampire hexes though! Harry has employed mortal agents before in order to get what he needs, like that ex-cop PI in Turn Coat. But even non-technological aids like tracking chips. Even good old fashioned recon and intel. One guy with eyes on the target calling in the air strike, for example. Or even just learning where a certain person will be and planning accordingly. There's plenty of non-magical means that wouldn't be hard to implement. No, I think Ebenezar had other reasons for not pursuing the White King...assuming he did in the first place.

Honestly, probably just a hole in Jim's story. Nothing deeper than that. Same with the ages of Lord Raith's children being so much younger.

Mostly because she's in charge and supernatural beings tend to go for the whole seniority denotes authority. She might not be though, I grant you. I don't believe it's stated ever she is the oldest or first born or anything along those lines.

I did actually say they had thrown their vampire whammy at other White Court vampires (but I forgive you for missing it, I did present a wall of text). Well, probably the main reason is it causes White Court vampires of House Raith to try and screw their victims. I can't imagine they would attempt that on uber-ghouls or skinwalkers etc. And yes, perhaps it wouldn't be all that useful in a fast fight and they prefer to rely on their speed and strength. Maybe it's only a last resort weapon when the Hunger takes over. But Lord Raith didn't mind just zapping people once upon a time (and perhaps other tricks). So presumably, it can be used in combat. Which is why I wonder about the effectiveness on particular beings.

That, and actual combat. Basically wearing down Mab by fighting and whammying until she succumbed. Pretty horrible fight I imagine. Not even sure it would work without the White King absorbing some of her hits. She is terrifyingly powerful. I believe Jim said it was pretty long odds anyway, even with the whole White Court.

Oh I agree Grey isn't at the same level as Shagnasty. I think being a shapeshifter he would try and impersonate a delicious mortal meal and then attack him with overwhelming force while his guard is down. But I don't doubt Grey also can use mortal weapons too. I doubt he would try the same tactic of overwhelming force as Shagnasty. Considering Grey can turn his hands into sickles of bone he could quite possibly decapitate and/or eviscerate Lord Raith if he got the jump on him. I can imagine he knows which of his many shapes would work best. Notice he turned into something particularly suited to fighting Ursiel/the Genoskwa. Also, the old fashioned kidnap and kill. Even something built to trap and render Lord Raith immobile would work well enough. The real question is whether McCoy and Grey would work together at all.

See, as much as I get your reasoning with Luccio I think she will die. She's part of the old guard. In a world where the White Council is remade (which won't necessarily happen should the White Council collapse), I can't imagine any of the old guard will be around. It will be a new generation, for a new world. Also, Luccio is another person who the death owl is hovering over (at least to me). I don't think she'll survive too much longer. She's a very killable character and Jim needs characters to kill. If the Merlin goes soon, I think the Council's collapse would be imminent. If not, it would probably mean someone like Cristos taking over and the Council becoming much worse - or flat-out evil (if Cristos is Black Council, for example).

I get what you mean. No one that wields the Blackstaff should be comfortable using it. But considering Eb chooses his successor, I can only see him choosing Harry. Certainly not Ramirez over Harry. The only way Ramirez might even get it would be if he picked it up literally off the ground right after Eb dies. But as I say, I don't think Ramirez is prepared to get into the world of grey. He sees the world still too black and white. Look at his most recent argument with Dresden.

[Griffyn612]

Certainly an intriguing possibility. I wouldn't mind meeting an "immortal mortal" if you like. No real powers, just lives forever. His real strength is his extensive knowledge.

I wonder about him being around during the time of the pyramids though. He could have been there, but the Gods were fairly active back then. Not to mention the fact Pharaohs were considered living gods for a time. Considering the Pyramids were apparently about Sun worship I would think the Gods would have been more involved with their construction, myself. But maybe it was a joint thing.

I could see him being a part of the House of Life. Perhaps the proto- Librarians in fact. The House of Life were associated with Kingship, and preserving and creating knowledge. Sometimes also associated with physicians and magic. Interestingly, it possibly was absorbed by the Coptic traditions, and considering the enormous links between the Catholic Church and Egypt (the Catholic Church just loved getting Ancient Egyptian artefacts, particularly obelisks), I could see the House of Life becoming the Catholic Church, and then leaving and becoming the Librarians.

Although, considering their style in the Dogmen comic, I don't have high hopes. Far more MIB than Watchers.

It's interesting to note that in all the iterations I could find, Ziusudra/Noah/etc has a wife, but she's never named. Noah's wife's name is speculated, but isn't known for sure. But in the case of Ziusudra and Atrahasis, the wife was made immortal too.

If I were writing it, I'd have Ziusudra found the Library, and his wife found the Archive. Both of them taking different approaches to the same goal, of preserving humanity's wisdom.

It's all fan fic, of course, but I like it. 

[Second Aristh]

Wizard hexes, sure. Not Vampire hexes though! Harry has employed mortal agents before in order to get what he needs, like that ex-cop PI in Turn Coat. But even non-technological aids like tracking chips. Even good old fashioned recon and intel. One guy with eyes on the target calling in the air strike, for example. Or even just learning where a certain person will be and planning accordingly. There's plenty of non-magical means that wouldn't be hard to implement. No, I think Ebenezar had other reasons for not pursuing the White King...assuming he did in the first place.

Honestly, probably just a hole in Jim's story. Nothing deeper than that. Same with the ages of Lord Raith's children being so much younger.

Maybe, but I don't think it would be too hard to justify from Eb's perspective.

Mostly because she's in charge and supernatural beings tend to go for the whole seniority denotes authority. She might not be though, I grant you. I don't believe it's stated ever she is the oldest or first born or anything along those lines.

Glad to know it's not just me not remembering things 

I did actually say they had thrown their vampire whammy at other White Court vampires (but I forgive you for missing it, I did present a wall of text). Well, probably the main reason is it causes White Court vampires of House Raith to try and screw their victims. I can't imagine they would attempt that on uber-ghouls or skinwalkers etc. And yes, perhaps it wouldn't be all that useful in a fast fight and they prefer to rely on their speed and strength. Maybe it's only a last resort weapon when the Hunger takes over. But Lord Raith didn't mind just zapping people once upon a time (and perhaps other tricks). So presumably, it can be used in combat. Which is why I wonder about the effectiveness on particular beings.

That, and actual combat. Basically wearing down Mab by fighting and whammying until she succumbed. Pretty horrible fight I imagine. Not even sure it would work without the White King absorbing some of her hits. She is terrifyingly powerful. I believe Jim said it was pretty long odds anyway, even with the whole White Court.

Ah, I misunderstood. 
Too much friendly fire makes the most sense to me for not throwing it harder in big group fights with Harry around, and stuff like Shagnasty is too big a bite to even attempt without enough whampires there.

Oh I agree Grey isn't at the same level as Shagnasty. I think being a shapeshifter he would try and impersonate a delicious mortal meal and then attack him with overwhelming force while his guard is down. But I don't doubt Grey also can use mortal weapons too. I doubt he would try the same tactic of overwhelming force as Shagnasty. Considering Grey can turn his hands into sickles of bone he could quite possibly decapitate and/or eviscerate Lord Raith if he got the jump on him. I can imagine he knows which of his many shapes would work best. Notice he turned into something particularly suited to fighting Ursiel/the Genoskwa. Also, the old fashioned kidnap and kill. Even something built to trap and render Lord Raith immobile would work well enough. The real question is whether McCoy and Grey would work together at all.

Huh, Grey is basically a good-guy version of Clayface.  Probably not as strong as Raith (Thomas bends barbells).  Whampire nature would nullify most poisons to knock him out for a kidnapping.  Grey might be able to manage something since he's resourceful, but I don't see an obvious tactic with an acceptable success rate.  Papa Raith should be most dangerous against a delicious meal.

See, as much as I get your reasoning with Luccio I think she will die. She's part of the old guard. In a world where the White Council is remade (which won't necessarily happen should the White Council collapse), I can't imagine any of the old guard will be around. It will be a new generation, for a new world. Also, Luccio is another person who the death owl is hovering over (at least to me). I don't think she'll survive too much longer. She's a very killable character and Jim needs characters to kill. If the Merlin goes soon, I think the Council's collapse would be imminent. If not, it would probably mean someone like Cristos taking over and the Council becoming much worse - or flat-out evil (if Cristos is Black Council, for example).

I actually think Luccio may survive a while yet.  She's gotten around the doom of being Harry's girlfriend.  She's supportive of a softer take on the Laws while still understanding why they were codified in the first place.  That being said, she is very killable.

I get what you mean. No one that wields the Blackstaff should be comfortable using it. But considering Eb chooses his successor, I can only see him choosing Harry. Certainly not Ramirez over Harry. The only way Ramirez might even get it would be if he picked it up literally off the ground right after Eb dies. But as I say, I don't think Ramirez is prepared to get into the world of grey. He sees the world still too black and white. Look at his most recent argument with Dresden.

Yeah, but I don't see Eb going down without a fight.  He's not quietly retiring and handing his staff to someone he picks.  Ramirez is gonna be at his side, then.  Harry doesn't particularly want the staff, and it would keep him from a fight with Ramirez. 

[Yuillegan]

It's interesting to note that in all the iterations I could find, Ziusudra/Noah/etc has a wife, but she's never named. Noah's wife's name is speculated, but isn't known for sure. But in the case of Ziusudra and Atrahasis, the wife was made immortal too.

If I were writing it, I'd have Ziusudra found the Library, and his wife found the Archive. Both of them taking different approaches to the same goal, of preserving humanity's wisdom.

It's all fan fic, of course, but I like it. 

That would be a tale! Not sure that Jim would do it but I would read that fan fic! Which I admittedly am not a big fan of but that story sounds intriguing.

Maybe, but I don't think it would be too hard to justify from Eb's perspective.

Glad to know it's not just me not remembering things 

Ah, I misunderstood. 
Too much friendly fire makes the most sense to me for not throwing it harder in big group fights with Harry around, and stuff like Shagnasty is too big a bite to even attempt without enough whampires there.

Huh, Grey is basically a good-guy version of Clayface.  Probably not as strong as Raith (Thomas bends barbells).  Whampire nature would nullify most poisons to knock him out for a kidnapping.  Grey might be able to manage something since he's resourceful, but I don't see an obvious tactic with an acceptable success rate.  Papa Raith should be most dangerous against a delicious meal.
I actually think Luccio may survive a while yet.  She's gotten around the doom of being Harry's girlfriend.  She's supportive of a softer take on the Laws while still understanding why they were codified in the first place.  That being said, she is very killable.

Yeah, but I don't see Eb going down without a fight.  He's not quietly retiring and handing his staff to someone he picks.  Ramirez is gonna be at his side, then.  Harry doesn't particularly want the staff, and it would keep him from a fight with Ramirez. 

We'll have to see about Eb I think. I would like more information regardless...hopefully something will come out of an AMA.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Jim was influenced by Clayface (although in my head it's a bit more like the Prototype game). Also, not sure you need to use poisons for a kidnap. Just render a being immobile. Chains, cuffs etc. A metal box that even a White Court vampire can't punch their way out of. Hell, if you keep them restrained enough with physical restrains they won't be able to even use that awesome strength. Lord Raith would be very dangerous against a meal...but also at his most vulnerable too I suspect.

Oh yeah, if Eb chooses it will be with his dying breaths. Not a formal sort of retirement at all. I don't know that Harry doesn't want the staff. And as we know, he is plenty prepared to fight Ramirez. He isn't trying hard to avoid it. I'm not saying Harry wants the Blackstaff. But if he thought it would go into the wrong hands i.e. the Council he might well take it for the greater good.

[Ed0517]

I thought the Blackstaff chose it's own bearer? Heck, Eb wasn't even Senior Council yet. Maybe it takes the best combat mage, or the one with the most combat strength, and even Ramirez admits Harry is stronger. But I doubt Harry wants it. Morgan would have been a good call.

I am not sure Whampire charm will work on Grey. He's only half human.  That skinwalker blood might walk right thru it. And I do think he'd take the deal if offered. He's a pro. He didn't even back down to Nick.  Only to Uriel. backing down to Uriel doesn't prove you are weak, it just proves you are not a total moron. 

Do we know how long House Raith has RUN the White court? Papa could have lost children in the fight for the throne. Or chosen not to have any until he solidified his hold on the throne. Maybe he didn't ascend until c. 1700.

I think a high caliber rifle takes Raith down.  Browning designed the .50 BMG as antimateriel. As in shooting light armored trucks and later planes. Later adapted in Vietnam as a long range sniper.  A head shot takes it off.  Center of mass, hydrostatic shock purees the organs. A pro like Kincaid will center of mass it, no headshot.  Muzzle energy roughly 30X a 9MM pistol.

 I think Eb was convinced to step down. Possibly after learning of Raith's  neutered status. 

[Hankthemoose]

The Accords wouldn't be broken per se, but killing a wizard of the White Council would give the WC an actionable grievance against the White Court (assuming it could be proven to a given standard blah blah).  That kind of grievance can be settled sometimes with a weregild or higher stakes including war depending on the moods of the Accorded nations.  My understanding with the WC-RC war was that both parties wronged each other, so other nations had an out to stay neutral.

Pretty sure Maggie Sr. was not a WC member when she died. She was being hunted by the wardens.

[Bad Alias]

The vampire leaders knew from Maggie Sr’s dinner argument. I’d be surprised if any senior council member was unaware except maybe Cristos tbh.

It seems pretty obvious that Ancient Mai doesn't know from TC where she says that Harry was never really Eb's apprentice. To me, this strongly suggests that she thought Eb was acting out of loyalty to an apprentice, not family member.

I'm really hoping Ziusudra is the founder and leader of the Librarians. I think he'd be perfect for it.

• He could be an amalgamation character in the Dresden files, and Harry could meet him and learn at the end that he's also known as Atrahasis, Utnapishtim, and Noah.
• He could have overseen the growth of the earliest empires, and the wonders they built, from the gardens of Babylon to the pyramids of Egypt to the lighthouse of Alexandria.

I'm not a big fan of the "this guy was everywhere in history and responsible for all the things" trope. I'm fine with such a character being involved in a specific eternal quest, like spreading and preserving knowledge.

Lara: Where are we getting Lara's age from? The most direct thing I can recall about age it the portraits in Papa Raith's library, which isn't very direct. We're never told that he's done this for every child in his 2000 year history or that he started after a certain point in art history. The first portrait suggests the woman (Emilia Alexandria Salazar) is from the 16th or 17th century (15 or 1600's). I kinda doubt that's the first time Papa Raith had a child considering the history of birth control.

It's explicitly stated that she's the oldest, BR: Ch. 15 - "'Harry," Thomas said. 'This is my oldest sister, Lara.'" Lara has known, in her head, that Papa Raith doesn't love her for a century. (I didn't remember either. Had to look it up).

Lara says in BR that she's seen siblings challenge Papa Raith before, so they could have been the older siblings.

All that taken together makes me think Lara is was born no later than the 1600's. She could be older if Papa Raith didn't always do portraits. She could be younger if Salazar was an older, now deceased, sibling's mother. The only information about the frequency of the portraits is that no two are within 20 or 30 years of each other and they "steadily grow closer to the present day."

I find it interesting though that White Court vampires don't often use it on powerful beings. None of them tried it on the Naagloshii, or on the Denarians, or the Fomor (the leaders, not the hybrid warriors). Seems like they don't just throw it around at everything. We've never even seen it tried on another vampire. Which makes me wonder if it's really only effective on mortals or other White Court vampires (and maybe some Faeries).

Lea seemed concerned about Thomas. She wanted Susan's "love" or her memories of Harry. Then Thomas was burned by Lea. I don't think that's a coincidence. At best, it's a misdirection.

Also Bigfoot Irwin was enthralled, so we have reason to believe wamp powers work on bigfeet and extremely powerful fae.

Ramirez as eventual Merlin: I think we're going to have Harry as founder of a new, reformed council. Maybe leader for a short while, then he "retreats to the wilderness." Not sure what the wilderness would be in this day and age.

A pro like Kincaid will center of mass it, no headshot.

Kincaid explicitly takes headshots.

If you’re shooting at someone, you’ve already decided to kill him. There’s no reason to shoot him anywhere other than the head, if you can. And I can.

https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/microfiction-3-con-swap-and-virtual-signing

Pretty sure Maggie Sr. was not a WC member when she died. She was being hunted by the wardens.

Morgan was a WC member when in TC.

[vincentric]

Morgan had only been on the run for a day or two not years like Maggie Sr.

[Mira]

Morgan had only been on the run for a day or two not years like Maggie Sr.

Yeah, I don't think it has ever been clear if she was ever a member of the Council.  On one hand in the earlier books when Harry was called on the carpet by the Senior Council, those that argue he is very much like his mother was, fighting the status quo, rebelling etc, give the impression that she was.. On the other hand if she was on the "most wanted list" given that they seemed to feel the need to expel Harry from the Council first before they did that says that at least at the time of her death Margaret was no longer a member if she ever was.  Plus given the problems she had with Eb says she might never have joined.  Harry even says in the earlier books that he agrees with what his mother was rebelling against as far as the Council's out dated thinking.  But it gets fuzzy because at that point in time anyway, Harry was still a staunch believer in the Council.. He never fully says one way or another if she was a member or still was a member when she died.  He may not know.

[Xamion]

Yeah see, the White Court actually broke the Accords by killing Maggie

No? The Accords were created way after she was already dead, in fact according to Harry (in Storm Front), they were created "very recently" (and according to WoJ, the exact year seems to be 1994).
Everyone seems to think the Accords are old, but they're in fact inspired *after* the Geneva convention, so with the speed at which the magical world at large operates, it makes no sense for the Accords to be a long-standing thing.

[Second Aristh]

No? The Accords were created way after she was already dead, in fact according to Harry (in Storm Front), they were created "very recently" (and according to WoJ, the exact year seems to be 1994).
Everyone seems to think the Accords are old, but they're in fact inspired *after* the Geneva convention, so with the speed at which the magical world at large operates, it makes no sense for the Accords to be a long-standing thing.

The *current* version of the Accords is from 1994.  The Accords are old enough that all the players have the rules pretty well figured out.  Plus, they're built on systems that are older, like guest rights.  It's like the last time a bunch of people got together like in Peace Talks to update the Accords was '94.

[Xamion]

The *current* version of the Accords is from 1994.  The Accords are old enough that all the players have the rules pretty well figured out.  Plus, they're built on systems that are older, like guest rights.  It's like the last time a bunch of people got together like in Peace Talks to update the Accords was '94.

That's wrong, even the Dresden Files RPG says so:

"THE UNSEELIE ACCORDS

In 1994, factions from the Nevernever went to open battle with each other in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Such things had happened before, of course, but mankind had a new tool for sharing information rapidly and globally: the internet. With the advent of the Digital Age, Queen Mab recognized the need for improved security and discretion and acted accordingly—and swiftly—to end the conflict in Milwaukee and limit the potential for future outbreaks of violence. The result of this action from the Queen of Air and Darkness was the Unseelie Accords, signed by those same warring factions. Mab’s influence and will are not to be underestimated."

And the WoJ seems to be (the source I have for it does not mention where the original WoJ is from):

"How old are the Unseelie Accords? They are Mab's accords, and she hasn't been in charge forever, after all. "
The Accords are fairly recent: they were signed when Dresden was a young man, before he went independent as a detective.
If I was writing it all again, I'd probably make them something happening early in the series. Chicago would have belonged to the White Council and been their dumping ground for problem wizards--the ones who weren't quite bad enough to kill, but who had to have an eye kept on them. Harry could have conflicted with the genuine bad-guys-in-process, emotionally saved maybe Mort Lindquist (who would have been one of them) and probably screwed up hard enough for the White Council to lose Chicago, making it essentially open territory, like Casablanca."

Also, Proven Guilty states this:

"There’s a sign Mac’s got hanging up at the door that reads ACCORDED NEUTRAL GROUND. It means that the place was supposed to be a no-combat zone, under the terms laid out in the Unseelie Accords, the most recent and influential set of principles agreed upon by most of the various nations of the supernatural maybe ten or twelve years ago."

IMHO, if there *was* something equivalent to the Accords before 1994, it clearly didn't include anything which gave Eb (or the WCouncil in general) any grounds against the WCourt.